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Thor: Ragnarok


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#1 Principled Man

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 05:01 PM

Very entertaining Marvel film.  :haz:

Lots and lots of action and laughs, of course.  Special effects and imagery were off the charts.  Some plot holes here and there, and a little too much emphasis on laughs over heavy drama (for my taste).  

Cate Blanchett was delicious as Hela.  :ebert:   She has quite a grip!!    


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#2 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 07:54 PM

Wrote this in the Last Movie You Watched thread...

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 03 November 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

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A bit disappointed by this. I can't blame it on hype either as there is no hype for this movie where I am.

The bad:
Spoiler

The good:
Spoiler

It's still better than Thor 2 but not as enjoyable as Thor 1.

I read an article in which the director stated that he encouraged Goldblum to improv some of his lines. IMHO, that doesn't work if you don't know the character...which clearly Jeff didn't know Grandmaster. There's the argument that many moviegoers don't read the comics so it doesn't matter BUT when you're representing a decades-established character then why wouldn't that character be depicted accurately?!

#3 Principled Man

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 08:37 PM

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 04 November 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

I read an article in which the director stated that he encouraged Goldblum to improv some of his lines. IMHO, that doesn't work if you don't know the character...which clearly Jeff didn't know Grandmaster. There's the argument that many moviegoers don't read the comics so it doesn't matter BUT when you're representing a decades-established character then why wouldn't that character be depicted accurately?!

For one thing, it's Jeff Goldblum.  He plays the same character in almost every film he does - someone you want to smack for being such a doosh.  How can Goldblum accurately portray an aeons-old Elder of the Universe?  He can't.  All he can do is be yet another whiny-voiced fool.  

If I had to pick a "bad part" of Ragnarok, it would be Goldblum's Grandmaster.

#4 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 09:32 PM

View PostPrincipled Man, on 04 November 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 04 November 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

I read an article in which the director stated that he encouraged Goldblum to improv some of his lines. IMHO, that doesn't work if you don't know the character...which clearly Jeff didn't know Grandmaster. There's the argument that many moviegoers don't read the comics so it doesn't matter BUT when you're representing a decades-established character then why wouldn't that character be depicted accurately?!

For one thing, it's Jeff Goldblum.  He plays the same character in almost every film he does - someone you want to smack for being such a doosh.  How can Goldblum accurately portray an aeons-old Elder of the Universe?  He can't.  All he can do is be yet another whiny-voiced fool.  

If I had to pick a "bad part" of Ragnarok, it would be Goldblum's Grandmaster.

Jeff was easily the worst part for me but there were other bad points in there. Even the reasoning for not having Jeff all blue (as stated in the article) as in the comics was lame - he portrayed another blue character in another movie.

#5 Stormtron

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:20 AM

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 04 November 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

Even the reasoning for not having Jeff all blue (as stated in the article) as in the comics was lame - he portrayed another blue character in another movie.



#6 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:18 AM

View PostStormtron, on 06 November 2017 - 05:20 AM, said:

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 04 November 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

Even the reasoning for not having Jeff all blue (as stated in the article) as in the comics was lame - he portrayed another blue character in another movie.



Grandmaster!
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Grandmaster?!
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Master!
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Masterbation!!!
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#7 Tombstone Mountain

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:20 AM

A very funny movie, though not the Thor of the comics I've read as a youngster. Screenplay was funny as hell. The Infinity Wars are gonna be something to see. How the hell are they gonna cram all those characters.

Dr. Strange...they need to make a sequel. Benedict is owning it big time

#8 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:03 AM

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 06 November 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

A very funny movie, though not the Thor of the comics I've read as a youngster. Screenplay was funny as hell. The Infinity Wars are gonna be something to see. How the hell are they gonna cram all those characters.

Dr. Strange...they need to make a sequel. Benedict is owning it big time

Doc Strange director whatshisname has some other commitments first but he wants to and will comeback for the sequel.

Some parts of Thor 3 were funny but I think they were overdone and too many. That scene with Thor hanging and spinning slowly in chains in front of Surtur shouldn't have happened. Obviously, the director wanted to send the message immediately that the movie was going to be a comedy. So it happened. And that's one big problem with it: Thor shouldn't be a comedy. The Marvel characters who lend themselves more easily to comedy are Spidey and even though I dislike him, Deadpool.

This was just too much for Thor IMHO. But I'm sure the movie will be well liked by viewers not too invested in these characters.

Thor should be a comedy like Conan the Barbarian should be a comedy. :sarcastic:

#9 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:10 AM

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 06 November 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

The Infinity Wars are gonna be something to see. How the hell are they gonna cram all those characters.


The Russo bros are handling Infinity War and are the best suited to do so. They did a great job balancing all the characters in Cap Civil War so I think they'll be fine with the larger group.

#10 Principled Man

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 06 November 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 06 November 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

A very funny movie, though not the Thor of the comics I've read as a youngster. Screenplay was funny as hell. The Infinity Wars are gonna be something to see. How the hell are they gonna cram all those characters.

Dr. Strange...they need to make a sequel. Benedict is owning it big time

Doc Strange director whatshisname has some other commitments first but he wants to and will comeback for the sequel.

Some parts of Thor 3 were funny but I think they were overdone and too many. That scene with Thor hanging and spinning slowly in chains in front of Surtur shouldn't have happened. Obviously, the director wanted to send the message immediately that the movie was going to be a comedy. So it happened. And that's one big problem with it: Thor shouldn't be a comedy. The Marvel characters who lend themselves more easily to comedy are Spidey and even though I dislike him, Deadpool.

This was just too much for Thor IMHO. But I'm sure the movie will be well liked by viewers not too invested in these characters.

Thor should be a comedy like Conan the Barbarian should be a comedy. :sarcastic:

I enjoyed Thor: The Dark World, but the climactic battle at the end was a clumsy mixture of heavy fighting and comedy.  It disappointed me.  The original Thor film had a good balance of drama, action and humor.    

It's understandable that Marvel Films doesn't want to make their films too serious and heavy, that they need to mix in some humor, but they're going too far, IMO.  They're targeting casual movie-goers and younger people more than serious fans and adults.

#11 Principled Man

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 09:33 AM

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 06 November 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 06 November 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

The Infinity Wars are gonna be something to see. How the hell are they gonna cram all those characters.


The Russo bros are handling Infinity War and are the best suited to do so. They did a great job balancing all the characters in Cap Civil War so I think they'll be fine with the larger group.

How does a film studio illustrate the near-infinite level of power that a character like Thanos has?  To accurately show the power of Thanos and the Infinity Stones.....that's gonna be quite a task.  :o

#12 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:53 AM

View PostPrincipled Man, on 06 November 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 06 November 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 06 November 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

A very funny movie, though not the Thor of the comics I've read as a youngster. Screenplay was funny as hell. The Infinity Wars are gonna be something to see. How the hell are they gonna cram all those characters.

Dr. Strange...they need to make a sequel. Benedict is owning it big time

Doc Strange director whatshisname has some other commitments first but he wants to and will comeback for the sequel.

Some parts of Thor 3 were funny but I think they were overdone and too many. That scene with Thor hanging and spinning slowly in chains in front of Surtur shouldn't have happened. Obviously, the director wanted to send the message immediately that the movie was going to be a comedy. So it happened. And that's one big problem with it: Thor shouldn't be a comedy. The Marvel characters who lend themselves more easily to comedy are Spidey and even though I dislike him, Deadpool.

This was just too much for Thor IMHO. But I'm sure the movie will be well liked by viewers not too invested in these characters.

Thor should be a comedy like Conan the Barbarian should be a comedy. :sarcastic:

I enjoyed Thor: The Dark World, but the climactic battle at the end was a clumsy mixture of heavy fighting and comedy.  It disappointed me.  The original Thor film had a good balance of drama, action and humor.    

It's understandable that Marvel Films doesn't want to make their films too serious and heavy, that they need to mix in some humor, but they're going too far, IMO.  They're targeting casual movie-goers and younger people more than serious fans and adults.

Thor 2 OR Incredible Hulk is the 2nd worst MCU movie IMHO. The worst is Iron Man 2.

I agree about Thor 1 - it's "good balance of drama, action and humor." At the time, I was surprised they could get it to work. I'm still kind of surprised.

And you're right again, they ARE going too far with this. Not every MCU movie needs to or should be comical in order to sell itself to audiences.

#13 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 11:06 AM

View PostPrincipled Man, on 06 November 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 06 November 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 06 November 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

The Infinity Wars are gonna be something to see. How the hell are they gonna cram all those characters.


The Russo bros are handling Infinity War and are the best suited to do so. They did a great job balancing all the characters in Cap Civil War so I think they'll be fine with the larger group.

How does a film studio illustrate the near-infinite level of power that a character like Thanos has?  To accurately show the power of Thanos and the Infinity Stones.....that's gonna be quite a task.  :o

It won't be easy but things will have to be scaled down, character-wise and overall scope.

An Avenger and/or Guardian or two will absolutely need to die...and I assume that'll be in the first part of Infinity War.
Then, Captain Marvel and Adam Warlock will both probably need to turn up at some point too to join the mayhem.

#14 Boots

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 09:40 AM

Chris Hemsworth liked a post I made on Facebook.  Maybe I should see this film.

#15 Alien Girl

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:03 PM

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 06 November 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

View PostPrincipled Man, on 06 November 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 06 November 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 06 November 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

A very funny movie, though not the Thor of the comics I've read as a youngster. Screenplay was funny as hell. The Infinity Wars are gonna be something to see. How the hell are they gonna cram all those characters.

Dr. Strange...they need to make a sequel. Benedict is owning it big time

Doc Strange director whatshisname has some other commitments first but he wants to and will comeback for the sequel.

Some parts of Thor 3 were funny but I think they were overdone and too many. That scene with Thor hanging and spinning slowly in chains in front of Surtur shouldn't have happened. Obviously, the director wanted to send the message immediately that the movie was going to be a comedy. So it happened. And that's one big problem with it: Thor shouldn't be a comedy. The Marvel characters who lend themselves more easily to comedy are Spidey and even though I dislike him, Deadpool.

This was just too much for Thor IMHO. But I'm sure the movie will be well liked by viewers not too invested in these characters.

Thor should be a comedy like Conan the Barbarian should be a comedy. :sarcastic:

I enjoyed Thor: The Dark World, but the climactic battle at the end was a clumsy mixture of heavy fighting and comedy.  It disappointed me.  The original Thor film had a good balance of drama, action and humor.

It's understandable that Marvel Films doesn't want to make their films too serious and heavy, that they need to mix in some humor, but they're going too far, IMO.  They're targeting casual movie-goers and younger people more than serious fans and adults.

Thor 2 OR Incredible Hulk is the 2nd worst MCU movie IMHO. The worst is Iron Man 2.

I agree about Thor 1 - it's "good balance of drama, action and humor." At the time, I was surprised they could get it to work. I'm still kind of surprised.

And you're right again, they ARE going too far with this. Not every MCU movie needs to or should be comical in order to sell itself to audiences.

I didn't mind Thor 2, though I can't stand Rose McGowan and making Erik Selvig into a laughing stock was unnecessary.   Age of Ultron would rank up there for bad...though it had it's good parts there were definite elements of the ridiculous in it.  Just my two cents though.

As for Ragnarok...yes, it was a little too comical considering the seriousness of the situation  (Yeah, the destruction of Asgard is always a laughing matter)...Thor always had had an air of gravitas and nobility, so to make him a comedian all of a sudden was just, I don't know, jarring.  I liked the movie, it was very fun, I just had issues with some of it.  And yeah, the gun parts were just stupid.

#16 Principled Man

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 08:41 PM

View PostAlien Girl, on 20 November 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I didn't mind Thor 2, though I can't stand Rose McGowan and making Erik Selvig into a laughing stock was unnecessary.  

Are you referring to the character of Darcy Lewis, Jane Foster's intern?  She was portrayed by Kat Dennings.  :)

#17 Alien Girl

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 01:02 AM

View PostPrincipled Man, on 20 November 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

View PostAlien Girl, on 20 November 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I didn't mind Thor 2, though I can't stand Rose McGowan and making Erik Selvig into a laughing stock was unnecessary.  

Are you referring to the character of Darcy Lewis, Jane Foster's intern?  She was portrayed by Kat Dennings.  :)

D'OH!  Yes...that's who I mean.  I get those two mixed up.  Can't stand either one.  But yes, the one who played Darcy.  Bleh.  She's also in Two Broke Girls...which I can't stand.  She has the acting skills of a 6th grader.  And not one of those idiot savant 6th grade academy award winners either.

#18 TheAccountant

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 09:02 PM

Overall I liked this movie.  Good & decent but not great.

I always say super hero movies could be so much more with just a little but less.  What I mean is that with a little bit less action and special effects the movies could breath more and expand their plots a lot more. I felt this one got that right.  Big plus for the movie.

Another plus is that they are slowly setting up The Defenders.  We now have Dr. Strange, the Valkiery and the Hulk.  All core Defenders.  My bet is that they will have Black Panther take the place of Nighthalk.

That being said, their were a lot of negatives to the movie.  The Grandmaster was (IMO) pathetic.  A pathetic eldar of the universe??  Please.  Plus, The Grandmaster had nothing to do with the Ragnarok series.  I still have that entire extended series of Thor comics and I am certain he does not appear.  Beta Ray Bill, yes. Although not here (another negative).  Bringing The Executioner in was great - long overdue - but no Enchantress??  Another negative.  Plus Hella had nothing to do with the Ragnarok series (if I recall).  BTW - The Ragnarok series did not really end with "Ragnarok" (issue 350).  It continued with "Ragnarok & roll" (issue 351), "Ragnar Rock & Roll too" (issue 352), "Ragnarok & ruin" (issue 353) & "Ruin" (issue 354).  That was the issue that ended the Ragnarok series.  

Other problems I had included the end of Asgard (don't want to say to much in that but I did not like that).  Killing off the Warriors 3?  Not for me.  Tosting Thor's hammer??  Big time not for me.  

So it was good & decent but not something I would see again.  Way to different from the mag's - and I don't like that.

#19 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 06:44 PM

View PostTheAccountant, on 24 November 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

Overall I liked this movie.  Good & decent but not great.

I always say super hero movies could be so much more with just a little but less.  What I mean is that with a little bit less action and special effects the movies could breath more and expand their plots a lot more. I felt this one got that right.  Big plus for the movie.

Another plus is that they are slowly setting up The Defenders.  We now have Dr. Strange, the Valkiery and the Hulk.  All core Defenders.  My bet is that they will have Black Panther take the place of Nighthalk.

That being said, their were a lot of negatives to the movie.  The Grandmaster was (IMO) pathetic.  A pathetic eldar of the universe??  Please.  Plus, The Grandmaster had nothing to do with the Ragnarok series.  I still have that entire extended series of Thor comics and I am certain he does not appear.  Beta Ray Bill, yes. Although not here (another negative).  Bringing The Executioner in was great - long overdue - but no Enchantress??  Another negative.  Plus Hella had nothing to do with the Ragnarok series (if I recall).  BTW - The Ragnarok series did not really end with "Ragnarok" (issue 350).  It continued with "Ragnarok & roll" (issue 351), "Ragnar Rock & Roll too" (issue 352), "Ragnarok & ruin" (issue 353) & "Ruin" (issue 354).  That was the issue that ended the Ragnarok series.  

Other problems I had included the end of Asgard (don't want to say to much in that but I did not like that).  Killing off the Warriors 3?  Not for me.  Tosting Thor's hammer??  Big time not for me.  

So it was good & decent but not something I would see again.  Way to different from the mag's - and I don't like that.

A lot of stuff I agree with here and a few I disagree with...

The fate of Thor's hammer in this flick - yeah, that's a big time NO for me. Other big time NO's included the end of Asgard and the Warrior's Three.

Not really a NO for me but something that could've been worked in was the Enchantress with The Executioner.

The biggest NO from this movie though was Grandmaster. I'm with you - he was a pathetic excuse for an Elder of the Universe. I dislike and sometimes hate that some of the MCU filmmakers are doing whatever they like with certain characters. I can understand adapting certain comic book storylines such as Ragnarok and Civil War for the big screen but altering the characters themselves so drastically that they're unrecognizable is a terrible mistake (in the long run). Having Grandmaster the way Goldblum portrayed him is as correct as IF Ryan Reynolds had depicted Deadpool as serious. [I'm no Reynolds or Deadpool fan but the portrayal itself was 100% accurate].

Additionally, the overly comedic tone in Thor Rag isn't too dissimilar from many 21st century Marvel mags...but that's not a good thing. The comedy is neither what established the characters nor what made them great. And tbh, many if not most of the jokes come off as forced and unfunny.

In short: Dammit MCU, get the characters right!...or mostly right at least.


Oh, in regards to your Defenders comment...
I don't think that'll happen. And that's for various reasons:

1) Netflix Defenders already exists.

2) Hulk is still technically on loan from Universal so the MCU can't totally do what they want with him. I admit, it probably wouldn't take much to convince Universal to take Hulk down that road though.

3) MCU Doc Strange doesn't seem to want Asgardians or any other similar super power on Earth so I'm not sure how it'd work if MCU Valkyrie were on the team.

4) Black Panther has got his own storyline happening and I'm guessing he's going to be used, like in the comics, as a reserve Avenger of sorts. He'll have no time to be replacing Nighthawk.

5) Actually, Valkyrie was originally intended to have a cameo in Thor 1 but it just didn't happen. If you search online you'll find the artist renderings of that. Aragorn included. Also, where the hell was Dragonfang in Thor Rag?! That was not Valkyrie. Sooo, in truth, Valkyrie was not in there to "set up" The Defenders since she was supposed to be in MCU Thor lore years ago.

[Edited to add] ---
If I were to have an MCU Defenders movie it'd be within a Doc Strange film and it'd be cut back to just him, Hulk, and Namor (the true original Defenders). That's more than enough muscle and characters to carry a story. I'd like to put Silver Surfer in there but it'd probably be too many characters to mess with especially given that Namor would need sufficient screen time and brawl time with Hulk. That kind of 3 headed team dynamic would be fun to see. Also, it'd allow the movie to (as you put it very well earlier) breathe. :blaze:

Edited by JohnnyBlaze, 29 November 2017 - 06:51 PM.





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