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Based on the interview... (WARNING: POSSIBLE PHILOSOPHICAL DEBATES!)


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#41 LeaveMyThingAlone

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 10:51 AM

View PostRon2112, on 02 November 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

View Posttoymaker, on 01 November 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

View PostLeaveMyThingAlone, on 01 November 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

Interesting to me was the part where Geddy describes driving away from a group of fans in fear and tired of being a celebrity, but realizes he doesn't want to be "that guy", the guy that can't make time for fans and lets his fear of fans dictate his life. What made it interesting to me was that "that guy" Geddy didn't want to become is the guy Neil did become...

Peart didn't "become" that guy - he was always that guy because of a predominant social awkwardness and shyness - which he has always admitted to, and which Lee reinforced by calling him shy.  There is nothing wrong with being socially awkward and shy; there is nothing wrong with wanting privacy and feeling anxious.  Not everyone can be as extroverted as Lifeson, and to some extent Lee.

I don't know that I agree with this.  At some point, if you're going to accept being in the public eye and for a rock star -- the wealth that goes with it -- then you need to be able to accept a fan who simply wants to say "thanks for the music."  Period.  Believe it or not, there are plenty of guys who could drum and write words as well as Neil.  

And then to compound things by writing that horrible "middle eight" section of his last book, as a final way to shit all over Rush, the fans, and the music industry, is really unforgivable.

Neil doesn’t “need” to do anything he doesn’t want to do regarding interacting with fans and he proved it by avoiding and running successfully for 40 years.

I’m just saying that it sounds like  Geddy and Neil were both similar in their shyness and were born with that social awkwardness and dislike of fan interaction. Geddy chose to work hard to change that and Neil didn’t. Good for Geddy.

Edited by LeaveMyThingAlone, 02 November 2017 - 10:52 AM.


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#42 toymaker

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:01 PM

I like to think that Peart's wealth is generally well deserved for a job well done.  The choice to interact with fans (let's face it, there are fans and there are fanatics) should be just that - a choice.  Peart is in the public eye, but that's not his fault!  I don't accept the idea that an artist who has been made wealthy by fans' "loyalty" is required to give more of himself away.  He's satisfied his part of the covenant by making music.  If I were in his place, I either would make myself available to fans or I wouldn't, but I'd hate like hell to think it was expected of me, and I would hate to feel that there was this relentless effort to "get through to me" even after expressing my discomfort multiple times

Peart has always said he likes being appreciated, but he gets embarrassed by the adulation.  If an author writes best-selling novels but wants to be left alone, I would imagine most people respect that - but there will always be those who snoop around looking for public records to see if they can find out where he or she lives.  Too many celebrities have stories about weirdos who wouldn't leave them alone.  Some of them have been murdered by stalkers.

Whatever questionable things Peart has written in his books, they're probably the result of years of anxiety and frustration that he couldn't just be left alone.  Could he have kept it to himself?  Sure - his ma probably told him if you can't say something nice, don't say anything.  Maybe he's been driven to a state of defensiveness; flight hasn't worked, so he's got to fight with the weapons he has - words.  Of course, it doesn't really matter how he expresses his feelings anyway, because fans still want a piece of him, still want to hold him up for scrutiny, still want to judge him by their own standards, and still feel they own him.

The guy's given us music, lyrics, photographs, concert videos, instructional videos, articles, blogs, booklists,and interviews; he's even shared some of his pain with us.  Do we absolutely have to have a private conversation with him?  Have our picture taken with him?  Let the guy have a little mystique, a little bit of life outside of the limelight . . . fan worship is just not a drug he's into.

Sorry.  As much as I love this forum, some of the bitterness expressed towards Peart has kind of tainted it a bit - but I'm glad it hasn't shattered my simple, long-distance, innocent appreciation of his talent.

:Neil:  The one and only - no matter how much "better" other drummers are, only one could so perfectly complement the music of Rush.

Edited by toymaker, 02 November 2017 - 10:00 PM.


#43 Wil1972

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 02:17 PM

View Posttoymaker, on 02 November 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

I like to think that Peart's wealth is generally well deserved for a job well done.  The choice to interact with fans (let's face it, there are fans and there are fanatics) should be just that - a choice.  Peart is the public eye, but that's not his fault!  I don't accept the idea that an artist who has been made wealthy by fans' "loyalty" is required to give more of himself away.  He's satisfied his part of the covenant by making music.  If I were in his place, I either would make myself available to fans or I wouldn't, but I'd hate like hell to think it was expected of me, and I would hate to feel that there was this relentless effort to "get through to me" even after expressing my discomfort multiple times

Peart has always said he likes being appreciated, but he gets embarrassed by the adulation.  If an author writes best-selling novels but wants to be left alone, I would imagine most people respect that - but there will always be those who snoop around looking for public records to see if they can find out where he or she lives.  Too many celebrities have stories about weirdos who wouldn't leave them alone.  Some of them have been murdered by stalkers.

Whatever questionable things Peart has written in his books, they're probably the result of years of anxiety and frustration that he couldn't just be left alone.  Could he have kept it to himself?  Sure - his ma probably told him if you can't say something nice, don't say anything.  Maybe he's been driven to a state of defensiveness; flight hasn't worked, so he's got to fight with the weapons he has - words.  Of course, it doesn't really matter how he expresses his feelings anyway, because fans still want a piece of him, still want to hold him up for scrutiny, still want to judge him by their own standards, and still feel they own him.

The guy's given us music, lyrics, photographs, concert videos, instructional videos, articles, blogs, booklists,and interviews; he's even shared some of his pain with us.  Do we absolutely have to have a private conversation with him?  Have our picture taken with him?  Let the guy have a little mystique, a little bit of life outside of the limelight . . . fan worship is just not a drug he's into.

Sorry.  As much as I love this forum, some of the bitterness expressed towards Peart has kind of tainted it a bit - but I'm glad it hasn't shattered my simple, long-distance, innocent appreciation of his talent.

:Neil:  The one and only - no matter how much "better" other drummers are, only one could so perfectly complement the music of Rush.

I know I have done my fair share of criticizing Neil for things related to how he retired, and how he has approached the last ten years, and sure, we all make jokes about his attitude towards fame and the "limelight" etc, but in this you are dead on. There is a certain level of accessibility Neil gives us as fans, but he does so at arm's length. And to ask for more can be too much for him. I get it. But I also feel there is a balance. Neil tightroped that for decades. Gotta give it to him for bearing it for that long, I guess.

#44 Digital Dad

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 07:06 PM

View Postoghond2112, on 31 October 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

In the Dan Rather interview with Geddy Lee, he described each member's interaction with the fans, and effectively, their personalities: Neil is perpetually shy and introverted, and VERY uncomfortable around fans, Alex is gregarious, talkative, and goofy, and Geddy himself is right smack-dab in the middle: very polite, friendly, and humble, yet somewhat reserved. Not as gregarious as Alex, but not as shy as Neil.

Meaning, effectively, that they can be considered the new Freudian trio (seen here: http://tvtropes.org/...in/FreudianTrio -though that may be a bit of a stretch). Specifically:

Id: Alex
Superego: Neil
Ego: Geddy

If not that, then it is ALMOST CERTAIN that they represent 3/4 of a four-temperament ensemble (seen here: http://tvtropes.org/...eramentEnsemble). Hint: there are no choleric members of RUSH. Hint: one's sanguine, one's melancholic, one's phlegmatic. Hint: it shouldn't take long to figure out who's who based on reading the descriptions.

Who else here agrees?

*NOTE: If I offend anyone with this, I sincerely apologize in advance. This thread was not meant to be offensive.*

I very much agree with the Freudian aspect of the inner self of the band. Could bend he reasonable rhey have worked so well for so long. They have let each other be exactly what they are.

#45 oghond2112

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 07:14 PM

Well, apparently... the official TV Tropes page for RUSH agrees with me about the whole Freud thing. http://tvtropes.org/....php/Music/Rush (go to where it says "Freudian Trio"). However, they DO NOT agree that Geddy is phlegmatic- they say he's CHOLERIC, which to me BARELY fits Geddy.

#46 LeaveMyThingAlone

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 11:27 AM

View Posttoymaker, on 02 November 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

I like to think that Peart's wealth is generally well deserved for a job well done.  The choice to interact with fans (let's face it, there are fans and there are fanatics) should be just that - a choice.  Peart is in the public eye, but that's not his fault!  I don't accept the idea that an artist who has been made wealthy by fans' "loyalty" is required to give more of himself away.  He's satisfied his part of the covenant by making music.  If I were in his place, I either would make myself available to fans or I wouldn't, but I'd hate like hell to think it was expected of me, and I would hate to feel that there was this relentless effort to "get through to me" even after expressing my discomfort multiple times

Peart has always said he likes being appreciated, but he gets embarrassed by the adulation.  If an author writes best-selling novels but wants to be left alone, I would imagine most people respect that - but there will always be those who snoop around looking for public records to see if they can find out where he or she lives.  Too many celebrities have stories about weirdos who wouldn't leave them alone.  Some of them have been murdered by stalkers.

Whatever questionable things Peart has written in his books, they're probably the result of years of anxiety and frustration that he couldn't just be left alone.  Could he have kept it to himself?  Sure - his ma probably told him if you can't say something nice, don't say anything.  Maybe he's been driven to a state of defensiveness; flight hasn't worked, so he's got to fight with the weapons he has - words.  Of course, it doesn't really matter how he expresses his feelings anyway, because fans still want a piece of him, still want to hold him up for scrutiny, still want to judge him by their own standards, and still feel they own him.

The guy's given us music, lyrics, photographs, concert videos, instructional videos, articles, blogs, booklists,and interviews; he's even shared some of his pain with us.  Do we absolutely have to have a private conversation with him?  Have our picture taken with him?  Let the guy have a little mystique, a little bit of life outside of the limelight . . . fan worship is just not a drug he's into.

Sorry.  As much as I love this forum, some of the bitterness expressed towards Peart has kind of tainted it a bit - but I'm glad it hasn't shattered my simple, long-distance, innocent appreciation of his talent.

:Neil:  The one and only - no matter how much "better" other drummers are, only one could so perfectly complement the music of Rush.

Spot on. I have been critical of the way Neil has handled some things recently, mainly just because I feel Geddy and Alex deserve a little better, but that's between the 3 of them. I'm just some dude on the outside that doesn't know much about the inside relationships, other than what I've observed.

All that being said, choosing to distance himself from everyone is Neil's call and it has hasn't had any impact on their music and my love for it. I am just saying  If Neil is perfectly fine with his relationship with fans (or lack of relationship) then that's all that matters. I think Geddy's point in the Rather interview was that if he had gone on to handle it in a similar way that Neil has chosen to, he probably wouldn't have felt good about it, so he felt he needed to change.  I have an appreciation for how Geddy has worked to adapt and have some peace with how he handles celebrity life. I doubt Neil feels any guilt or regret about how he has handled it. I hope not, because that would be quite a burden.




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