Justice Is Served

[goose]

If we are going to look at this rationally, I think it could be investigated as a murder

 

Van Zyl and another hunter leave together with some dogs ... The two hunters separate, with the dogs supposedly going with Van Zyl ..

 

The other hunter returns, as do Van Zyl's dogs

 

So the dogs made it back unscathed ( ? )

The article says this:

 

His footprints were tracked to a riverbank where searchers found his backpack as well as several large Nile crocodiles. Authorities killed the crocs after getting clearance to do so and subsequently discovered human remains inside the stomach of one of them.

 

Tests later confirmed it was Van Zyl. Do you think maybe he was killed and thrown to the crocs?

[Principled Man]

Who the hell would shoot a giraffe?

 

I used to hunt deer and birds, but what is the giraffe about?

Seems weird to me. I don't get trophy hunting at all.

 

Machismo. It's all about the machismo. Even in the 21st century, shooting wild, exotic animals is still seen as a way to increase one's "manhood". :boo hiss: :boo hiss:

[KenJennings]

Exactly why are people celebrating this?

 

The derranged attitude people take toward trophy hunting is really sick. I see no indication he was a bad guy. He brought economic activity to improverished nations, he helped to feed local villiagers, he provided a lot of hunters with services that were in demand.

 

I see absolutely no moral quandary with him. But I see a lot of moral quandary in those celebrating his death. It's sick.

[Fordgalaxy]

One thing that isn't well known because it doesn't grab you by the emotionals, the meat from many of these animals is given to the locals who actually eat it. I'm sure there are people who don't do that and throw away the parts of the animal they don't have mounted, but not all of them.

 

When some guy who is hung like a light switch pays thousands of dollars to shoot and kill a living creature, it SHOULD grab you by the emotionals ..

 

I remember this post from the WHAT MADE YOU SAD TODAY thread:

 

Fordgalaxy, on 29 May 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

 

I got sad when I read about a gorilla being killed in a Cincinnati zoo because some pathetic excuse for a parent or parents weren't paying attention to their 4 year old son and he managed to get into the area where the gorillas reside. One of the larger males grabbed him and the emergency response team thought the child may have been in danger so they shot and killed the gorilla.

Completely different scenarios. The gorilla was not in his natural environment and they made the decision to shoot him because they feared for the kid's safety. The people shooting wild animals in their natural habitat, are doing so for other reasons. The point I was trying to make was that many times or maybe all the time, the meat from those animals is given to locals to feed themselves and their families and as someone else posted, sometimes there are too many of a certain animal so this helps with overpopulation. Don't take that as condoning what the hunters do, if the only reason they are doing it is to have a trophy, I don't agree with that. I also don't agree with people such as yourself saying that they are compensating for having a little dick. Men have been hunting and gathering since they figured out how.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Fordgalaxy

[Lucas]

Exactly why are people celebrating this?

 

The derranged attitude people take toward trophy hunting is really sick. I see no indication he was a bad guy. He brought economic activity to improverished nations, he helped to feed local villiagers, he provided a lot of hunters with services that were in demand.

 

I see absolutely no moral quandary with him. But I see a lot of moral quandary in those celebrating his death. It's sick.

 

Please point me to one source that says anything about Van Zyl and philanthropy

 

And to say that Van Zyl was providing a service that was in demand and providing income is like condoning human trafficking

 

Get off your pedestal .. every living creature deserves to have respect and dignity, not just the affluent mighty whitey

 

 

[KenJennings]

And to say that Van Zyl was providing a service that was in demand and providing income is like condoning human trafficking

 

Except there is no human being trafficked. He's not victimizing anyone.

 

Get off your pedestal .. every living creature deserves to have respect and dignity, not just the affluent mighty whitey

 

Every human deserves respect and dignity. And I don't see that being done in the case of this poor man.

 

Animals are not people. We eat them. We use them as tools. They are things.

 

Inflicting cruelty is inexcusable, but the humane taking of game for the betterment of humans is not immoral: it is our place in nature. So long as the meat is feeding people, so long as the harvest is not wasted; there is no moral quandary.

 

As for the 'whitey' comment, I don't know what you're getting at there; especially when you consider that some of the greatest benefactors of trophy hunting expeditions are impoverished non-whites who have few other natural resources to exploit, and have tribes and villages that are fed by these kinds of harvest.

 

We really need to stop anthropomorphizing animals. Disney movies have really messed up peoples' sense of perspective.

Edited April 27, 2017 by KenJennings

[Lucas]

 

 

Animals are not people. We eat them. We use them as tools. They are things.

 

 

 

I don't know how else to put it, but you are pathetic

[KenJennings]

Animals are not people. We eat them. We use them as tools. They are things.

 

 

 

I don't know how else to put it, but you are pathetic

 

Me and everyone else who enjoys a cheeseburger. Only difference is, I'm honest about it.

[OldRUSHfan]

One thing that isn't well known because it doesn't grab you by the emotionals, the meat from many of these animals is given to the locals who actually eat it. I'm sure there are people who don't do that and throw away the parts of the animal they don't have mounted, but not all of them.

 

When some guy who is hung like a light switch pays thousands of dollars to shoot and kill a living creature, it SHOULD grab you by the emotionals ..

 

Of course it should. But then, as adults, we should take pause and consider all aspects of the situation to reach a rational conclusion.

 

Where is the rational conclusion here ??

 

 

For a human being to make a business out of this and profit by charging tens of thousands of dollars, I stand by my choice of thread titles

 

Ahhh. The RATIONAL response to the people who do this crap are greedy sum-bitches who need their genitals removed so they can't befoul the gene pool....

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/bondage%20banana.gif

[Day of Light]

If you really care about animals not dying, stop eating meat.

[Fridge]

If you really care about animals not dying, stop eating meat.

 

This......

 

This issue is at the heart of it all, hunting itself would never have existed if mankind didn't need to eat meat.

However. we have now progressed to a point where we no longer NEED to eat it, and it has become a matter of preference.

It is well known that far more people could be fed if land that is currently used to graze livestock was turned over to crop growing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being holier-than-thou, as I still occasionally crack and eat some meat, but I'm working on excluding it from my diet.

 

Just thought I'd mention the elephant in the room (pun intended).

[Principled Man]

If you really care about animals not dying, stop eating meat.

 

This......

 

This issue is at the heart of it all, hunting itself would never have existed if mankind didn't need to eat meat.

However. we have now progressed to a point where we no longer NEED to eat it, and it has become a matter of preference.

It is well known that far more people could be fed if land that is currently used to graze livestock was turned over to crop growing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being holier-than-thou, as I still occasionally crack and eat some meat, but I'm working on excluding it from my diet.

 

Just thought I'd mention the elephant in the room (pun intended).

 

It seems to me that the fundamental issue (in this country) is that of trophy hunters killing non-food animals such as leopards and lions, all for the macho pretense of "going on safari".

 

If Van Zyl had been hunting deer when he was killed, then this would hardly be newsworthy. Van Zyl was killing exotic animals for his own macho entertainment.

 

Humans have progressed to the point of not needing to eat meat, but we are also progressing to the point where we don't see wild animals as trophies or toys. Circuses are becoming extinct, as people no longer approve of exploiting animals for entertainment. Zoos have also improved their treatment of animals. Many millions have been spent to provide more natural environments for animals.

 

Killing animals for food is a valid reason. Killing animals for sport is not. That is the issue.

[OldRUSHfan]

If you really care about animals not dying, stop eating meat.

 

This......

 

This issue is at the heart of it all, hunting itself would never have existed if mankind didn't need to eat meat.

However. we have now progressed to a point where we no longer NEED to eat it, and it has become a matter of preference.

It is well known that far more people could be fed if land that is currently used to graze livestock was turned over to crop growing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being holier-than-thou, as I still occasionally crack and eat some meat, but I'm working on excluding it from my diet.

 

Just thought I'd mention the elephant in the room (pun intended).

 

It seems to me that the fundamental issue (in this country) is that of trophy hunters killing non-food animals such as leopards and lions, all for the macho pretense of "going on safari".

 

If Van Zyl had been hunting deer when he was killed, then this would hardly be newsworthy. Van Zyl was killing exotic animals for his own macho entertainment.

 

Humans have progressed to the point of not needing to eat meat, but we are also progressing to the point where we don't see wild animals as trophies or toys. Circuses are becoming extinct, as people no longer approve of exploiting animals for entertainment. Zoos have also improved their treatment of animals. Many millions have been spent to provide more natural environments for animals.

 

Killing animals for food is a valid reason. Killing animals for sport is not. That is the issue.

 

Killing animals for food is a valid reason? Even if the species being killed is in danger of Extinction? Domesticated animals with no fear of running out of mates to propigate the species are ok for eating, but as we all know, Cats, Dogs, various small animals are frowned upon as food sources except in areas of the globe where they were always considered as food... killing species in danger of extinction is THE ISSUE.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/sniper%20banana.gif

[KenJennings]

If you really care about animals not dying, stop eating meat.

 

This......

 

This issue is at the heart of it all, hunting itself would never have existed if mankind didn't need to eat meat.

However. we have now progressed to a point where we no longer NEED to eat it, and it has become a matter of preference.

It is well known that far more people could be fed if land that is currently used to graze livestock was turned over to crop growing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being holier-than-thou, as I still occasionally crack and eat some meat, but I'm working on excluding it from my diet.

 

Just thought I'd mention the elephant in the room (pun intended).

 

It seems to me that the fundamental issue (in this country) is that of trophy hunters killing non-food animals such as leopards and lions, all for the macho pretense of "going on safari".

 

If Van Zyl had been hunting deer when he was killed, then this would hardly be newsworthy. Van Zyl was killing exotic animals for his own macho entertainment.

 

Humans have progressed to the point of not needing to eat meat, but we are also progressing to the point where we don't see wild animals as trophies or toys. Circuses are becoming extinct, as people no longer approve of exploiting animals for entertainment. Zoos have also improved their treatment of animals. Many millions have been spent to provide more natural environments for animals.

 

Killing animals for food is a valid reason. Killing animals for sport is not. That is the issue.

 

But the animals are eaten. Trophy hunts almost all go to feed locals.

 

So it is very much the issue.

[Principled Man]

If you really care about animals not dying, stop eating meat.

 

This......

 

This issue is at the heart of it all, hunting itself would never have existed if mankind didn't need to eat meat.

However. we have now progressed to a point where we no longer NEED to eat it, and it has become a matter of preference.

It is well known that far more people could be fed if land that is currently used to graze livestock was turned over to crop growing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being holier-than-thou, as I still occasionally crack and eat some meat, but I'm working on excluding it from my diet.

 

Just thought I'd mention the elephant in the room (pun intended).

 

It seems to me that the fundamental issue (in this country) is that of trophy hunters killing non-food animals such as leopards and lions, all for the macho pretense of "going on safari".

 

If Van Zyl had been hunting deer when he was killed, then this would hardly be newsworthy. Van Zyl was killing exotic animals for his own macho entertainment.

 

Humans have progressed to the point of not needing to eat meat, but we are also progressing to the point where we don't see wild animals as trophies or toys. Circuses are becoming extinct, as people no longer approve of exploiting animals for entertainment. Zoos have also improved their treatment of animals. Many millions have been spent to provide more natural environments for animals.

 

Killing animals for food is a valid reason. Killing animals for sport is not. That is the issue.

 

Killing animals for food is a valid reason? Even if the species being killed is in danger of Extinction? Domesticated animals with no fear of running out of mates to propigate the species are ok for eating, but as we all know, Cats, Dogs, various small animals are frowned upon as food sources except in areas of the globe where they were always considered as food... killing species in danger of extinction is THE ISSUE.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/sniper%20banana.gif

 

I wasn't talking about endangered animals. Killing animals like cows, chickens, pigs, etc. for food is valid.

 

The subject of this thread is a big game trophy hunter who was eaten by crocodiles. We can talk about all the side-issues associated with this story, but the real issue is the trophy hunter and if he "deserved" his fate.

[KenJennings]

killing species in danger of extinction is THE ISSUE.

 

If the issue is the threat of extinction, then it's best to manage game properly. Nobody has a greater vested interest in preserving a species than the sportsmen who wish to continue hunting them.

 

A well written piece on this very topic:

http://www.latimes.c...0808-story.html

 

The best thing you can do for these animals is to manage them. Regulate the harvest, control the population, balance their environment. When you restrict hunting endeavors to illegal poaching, things become uncontrolled. The vested interest disappears for game managers and conservationalists. Responsible hunters also dedicate land to the management of populations- something that does not occur when hunting activities are left to poachers.

 

Poaching is a crime and is condemnable. Responsible hunting, harvesting game and managing populations- when the meat will be used by hungry people- is praiseworhty. I understand the instinct to think that conservation starts with ending the hunt, but it simply doesn't hold up logically.

 

Americans take 6 million deer each year. The species is nowhere near the threat of extinction. Why? Because hunters manage populations, set aside land for wildelife conservation, and act within regulations and licensing terms. In doing so, we ensure a continued healthy population, and we can control the resource for future generations.

Edited April 28, 2017 by KenJennings

[Lucas]

.

 

We really need to stop anthropomorphizing animals. Disney movies have really messed up peoples' sense of perspective.

 

 

I'm not anthropomorphizing anything - consistent with what I have stated, all living creatures deserve to live with dignity and be respected ..

 

To think this is only possible if we humanize them is misguided, to say the least ..

 

Again, this is not about food or celebration - I simply stated that justice was served

 

We all have our own set of moral standards ... Paying ( or collecting ) tens of thousands of dollars for what amounts to a canned hunt, posing in photos and hanging the head on a wall doesn't fit into to what I feel is just

 

 

.

 

.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Lucas

[Lucas]

If you really care about animals not dying, stop eating meat.

 

It goes beyond that .. I am talking about an awareness for all living creatures - whether it be a lion in a canned hunt, a human being who is stuck in a sweatshop making clothes, or a person who is helpless on the side of the road with a flat tire ..

 

 

[OldRUSHfan]

If you really care about animals not dying, stop eating meat.

 

This......

 

This issue is at the heart of it all, hunting itself would never have existed if mankind didn't need to eat meat.

However. we have now progressed to a point where we no longer NEED to eat it, and it has become a matter of preference.

It is well known that far more people could be fed if land that is currently used to graze livestock was turned over to crop growing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being holier-than-thou, as I still occasionally crack and eat some meat, but I'm working on excluding it from my diet.

 

Just thought I'd mention the elephant in the room (pun intended).

 

It seems to me that the fundamental issue (in this country) is that of trophy hunters killing non-food animals such as leopards and lions, all for the macho pretense of "going on safari".

 

If Van Zyl had been hunting deer when he was killed, then this would hardly be newsworthy. Van Zyl was killing exotic animals for his own macho entertainment.

 

Humans have progressed to the point of not needing to eat meat, but we are also progressing to the point where we don't see wild animals as trophies or toys. Circuses are becoming extinct, as people no longer approve of exploiting animals for entertainment. Zoos have also improved their treatment of animals. Many millions have been spent to provide more natural environments for animals.

 

Killing animals for food is a valid reason. Killing animals for sport is not. That is the issue.

 

Killing animals for food is a valid reason? Even if the species being killed is in danger of Extinction? Domesticated animals with no fear of running out of mates to propigate the species are ok for eating, but as we all know, Cats, Dogs, various small animals are frowned upon as food sources except in areas of the globe where they were always considered as food... killing species in danger of extinction is THE ISSUE.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/sniper%20banana.gif

 

I wasn't talking about endangered animals. Killing animals like cows, chickens, pigs, etc. for food is valid.

 

The subject of this thread is a big game trophy hunter who was eaten by crocodiles. We can talk about all the side-issues associated with this story, but the real issue is the trophy hunter and if he "deserved" his fate.

 

I understand that. But as will happen on practically every message board ever made, threads WILL be HIJACKED. And it seemed to me that The Ethics of consuming meat and how and what to eat was the 'subject' it turned into. Back to the Subject you started the thread about, YES he deserved what he got. If he was such a GREAT HUNTER, he should have known how to keep SAFE in whichever environment he found himself in. CHOMP CHOMP!!!

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Animals/Crocodile%20Dive.gif

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/sniper%20banana.gif

[Principled Man]

But as will happen on practically every message board ever made, threads WILL be HIJACKED. And it seemed to me that The Ethics of consuming meat and how and what to eat was the 'subject' it turned into. Back to the Subject you started the thread about, YES he deserved what he got. If he was such a GREAT HUNTER, he should have known how to keep SAFE in whichever environment he found himself in. CHOMP CHOMP!!!

 

Lucas made this thread, so all the credit (or blame?) goes to him......

 

Like all trophy hunters, Scott Van Zyl's hunting skills are questionable. Put him and his clients out in the real wilderness, where nothing is made easier for them, and let's see how they fare.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Principled Man

[MMCXII]

Justice would've been better served if he could've been prosecuted and imprisoned.

 

Rest assured, I'm not mourning.

 

The infuriating thing is that what he was doing is legal there

I don't know much about what this guy was specifically doing, but there are a lot of legal safari hunts on game preserves in Africa that are used to help protect animals. They can raise millions of dollars for the park service in very poor countries that can't afford sufficient enforcement against poaching. I've even heard some say that controlled legal hunting in Africa has kept some animals from going extinct.

 

Something to consider.

This is no time to be rational!!!

 

FU

 

http://images2.corriereobjects.it/methode_image/2017/04/23/Scienze/Foto%20Scienze%20-%20Trattate/1003934_10201123678466789_1553278464_n-kHRE-U43310471085935Vz-1224x916@Corriere-Web-Nazionale-593x443.jpg?v=20170424164533

 

:( :(

 

Poor animal!

The article states that the hunter had led (tourist) hunts for lions, giraffes, and elephants among others. As far as conservation status goes, lions and giraffes are listed as "vulnerable". Elephants are in a more serious situation. I don't know their EXACT status so I'm not listing it. But they're surely in a worse predicament than the other two big game. In THIS particular case, it at least SEEMS like the hunting was done for sport for the rich and NOT simply a matter of animal preservation and raising money for parks...as it was on that dead hunter's hunting lands which according to the article, "border nature preserves".

 

Who the hell would shoot a giraffe?

 

I used to hunt deer and birds, but what is the giraffe about?

 

Shooting a giraffe would be like shooting a deer and a bird at the same time.

 

Then mount the head on the wall and it'd probably occupy two rooms!

 

 

[Principled Man]

 

Who the hell would shoot a giraffe?

 

I used to hunt deer and birds, but what is the giraffe about?

 

It's African. It's exotic. That gives it a mystique that Western trophy hunters on safari covet. It adds to their pretense of being a Big Macho Man Game Hunter. :boo hiss: :boo hiss:

[OldRUSHfan]

killing species in danger of extinction is THE ISSUE.

 

If the issue is the threat of extinction, then it's best to manage game properly. Nobody has a greater vested interest in preserving a species than the sportsmen who wish to continue hunting them.

 

A well written piece on this very topic:

http://www.latimes.c...0808-story.html

 

The best thing you can do for these animals is to manage them. Regulate the harvest, control the population, balance their environment. When you restrict hunting endeavors to illegal poaching, things become uncontrolled. The vested interest disappears for game managers and conservationalists. Responsible hunters also dedicate land to the management of populations- something that does not occur when hunting activities are left to poachers.

 

Poaching is a crime and is condemnable. Responsible hunting, harvesting game and managing populations- when the meat will be used by hungry people- is praiseworhty. I understand the instinct to think that conservation starts with ending the hunt, but it simply doesn't hold up logically.

 

Americans take 6 million deer each year. The species is nowhere near the threat of extinction. Why? Because hunters manage populations, set aside land for wildelife conservation, and act within regulations and licensing terms. In doing so, we ensure a continued healthy population, and we can control the resource for future generations.

 

Hey, both of my Kids went to Ted Nugent's Kamp for Kids in the early 2000s. I got to meet the guy, I've been a Life member of his organization since the early '80s. I believe in the same stuff Ted does, and management is the prefered method of taking care of endangered species....You can check on this at. Ted Nugent.com or other info compendium as you wish...

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/banana%20doubtful.gif

[vaportrailer]

Damn, this thread is making me hungry. Might have unicorn steak this evening, or a whale sandwich.

 

 

[JohnnyBlaze]

Damn, this thread is making me hungry. Might have unicorn steak this evening, or a whale sandwich.

 

Not that I'd want to but I can buy a can of whale meat at a shop 5 minutes from me. About $4-5 for a can of whale the size of a can of spam.

 

http://68.media.tumblr.com/65f5c6a2488a8e9d906b875622814ac3/tumblr_nn6ftbhh6d1u5xvbuo1_500.jpg