Star Trek Discovery is a Dumpster Fire

[JohnRogers]

Interesting, mostly about ST:D but the Picard show is covered as well.

 

[KenJennings]

The season two premier was definitely not a dumpster fire, IMO. Was one of the best episodes in Discovery's run. The Spock connection was a little forced; but the tone was substanitially brighter, the dialogue was much less forced, the characters all had meaning and felt comfortable... and I totally dig this iteration of Captain Pike.

 

I'm in for more of this.

[JohnRogers]

The season two premier was definitely not a dumpster fire, IMO. Was one of the best episodes in Discovery's run. The Spock connection was a little forced; but the tone was substanitially brighter, the dialogue was much less forced, the characters all had meaning and felt comfortable... and I totally dig this iteration of Captain Pike.

 

I'm in for more of this.

I haven’t seen it yet. Sometimes people learn from mistakes.

[KenJennings]

Wow. This week's episode was a homerun. Easily the best episode of the series to date.

 

Jonathan Frakes' direction was absolutely on point. These characters are beginning to have some depth and feeling. This mission carried moral quandary and weight, while being tense and dramatic. It felt like Star Trek again.

 

Really good job. Gives me a lot of hope that this thing could be getting back on track.

Edited January 25, 2019 by KenJennings

[KenJennings]

And they suck all the positive momentum out of the season by jumping right back into the dumpster fire. Terrible episode tonight. Right back to the awful season one formula.

[RUSHHEAD666]

I would rather listen to "Vapor Trails" 2112 times than watch this tripe!

 

Why do they try???

 

Give me the original TV series.

 

Give me "The Wrath Of Khan."

 

Give me my favorite Trek film "The Voyage Home!" I love that one with the whales!

 

I mean really???

 

Star Wars Park is about to open. "Episode 9" is coming out in December.

 

Star Trek needs to go into some serious cyber hibernation for eternity.

[KenJennings]

Moving back toward quality with this week's episode.

 

It's a see saw right now, one week showing promise and wonder, the next showing bleak, annoying nonsense. Keep moving in this direction.

[JohnRogers]

Moving back toward quality with this week's episode.

 

It's a see saw right now, one week showing promise and wonder, the next showing bleak, annoying nonsense. Keep moving in this direction.

My Sci-Fi Sunday was garbage this week. This week’s DISCO and the Home episode of Orville were boring and cliché.

[KenJennings]

So much wrong with this show, but I can't look away.

 

With The Orville knocking it out of the park damn near every week, my Trek need is sated. Discovery is just the bonus content... and in that context, I can kind of enjoy it.

 

I'm guessing they're going to start picking up loose ends from "Enterprise", with the temporal cold war and the sphere builders. If they do, I applaud their bravery.

[KenJennings]

What a disaster. Discovery suceeded at building up potential this season, only to piss it away with one of the most disappointing, half assed reveals I've ever seen.

 

Call in M. Night Shaymalan, because they need a better twist.

 

I have so many problems with the last episode that I can't even list them all.

 

Time crystals...

[ReRushed]

I gave up on this show half way through the first season and never looked back.

 

I am cautiously looking forward to the Picard series, my fingers are crossed.

[Mosher]

I still love this show. I rewatched every Trek incarnation recently, and I honestly think people forget how awful some of those episodes were. Discovery is better acted across the board than any other Trek, and when the story is good it is as good as the others on average. No Trek incarnation can stake a claim that it was never completely inane. They all were sometimes. But everything those early shows stood for, in my opinion, are reflected just as well in Discovery.

[Mosher]

I'll add that season two of Discovery has very smartly decided to scrap the Klingons. Obviously they were created and now exist, but they dialed way back how often I have to witness them. Yes I love Discovery, but I am not a fan of the Klingon change.

[JohnnyBlaze]

I would rather listen to "Vapor Trails" 2112 times than watch this tripe!

 

Why do they try???

 

Give me the original TV series.

 

Give me "The Wrath Of Khan."

 

Give me my favorite Trek film "The Voyage Home!" I love that one with the whales!

 

I mean really???

 

Star Wars Park is about to open. "Episode 9" is coming out in December.

 

Star Trek needs to go into some serious cyber hibernation for eternity.

 

That will never happen. There is such a huge base of fans that Trek shows or movies will continue for all eternity no matter how shit they are.

[JohnRogers]

CBS emailed me a survey...they’ll probably regret that.

 

Star Trek: Dumpster Fire has great production values. It has a strong cast of talented actors. It is also full of continuity problems, clichés and hollow relationships. The Spore Drive is as ridiculous as it sounds. Captain Lorca was a great character but nothing tops having worked in Captain Pike. If anyone at CBS has functioning brain cells they’ll green light a Pike series right now!

 

First casting Anson Mount was brilliant. Pike is a character with a rich untapped history. As portrayed by Mount he was a strong leader with core values embracing the best of classic Star Trek in a modern way. We want more of Pike on Enterprise discovering strange new worlds, new civilizations, boldly going where no one has gone before.

[Mosher]

The Star Trek Discovery finish has just fixed all of the problems I had with it while retaining what I loved.

 

JohnRogers lover for Pike notwithstanding, it is always a mistake to go back in time with Trek when creating a new series. Going back in time either handcuffs the writing or forces continuity errors that are annoying. Going into the future opens up the playground far more. Discovery has correctly moved into the future. (I loved Pike/Number One/et al, but still. Let's move forward.)

 

It also allows for the utter disposal of the mistaken Klingon design should they correctly decide to.

 

But the actors are retained going forward, and this season thankfully fleshed out the fringe characters better.

 

I already liked Discovery, but I think next season will be much better. Hopefully they will get back to exploration a bit more a have a bit less single problem driving the season. But I like that the metaphorical reset button was removed- that should stay gone. Last episodes events can impact people going forward without it informing the plot of every episode.

[KenJennings]

I thought the finale was a total mess.

 

For one, after they killed leland and neutralized control; why did they continue into the wormhole? Because plot?

 

Why would they classify the entire ship, including the spore drive and associated research. That had nothing to do with the creation of control. In retrospect it seems a pretty massive slap in the face to Janeway and the Voyager.

 

The visual and technological updates are total nonsense. When they made Enterprise a prequel, at least they had the decency to downgrade the technology to fit the timeline. Discovery upped the ante on all this to a pretty ridiculous degree... the Constitution class starship is not carrying around 200 freaking auxiliary craft!

 

Still no explanation of the frog klingons.

 

The writers of this show have a few major problems- one is that they continually write plot without creating supporting facts. They never bother to take the time to challenge their own ideas. Nobody in that writing room seems to care.

 

Another is that they only use canon for branding, not meaningful world building or service to a legacy. They want to tell their hacky story, be damned what came before (or may come after). Discovery is a cash grab, not a piece of art.

 

It all reeks of disrespect for everything that's been crafted for the last 50 years. I would rather see Star Trek die as a franchise than continue down this road.

 

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for who we really are!"

 

Now Fox needs to renew The Orville.

Edited May 2, 2019 by KenJennings

[Mosher]

I thought the finale was a total mess.

 

For one, after they killed leland and neutralized control; why did they continue into the wormhole? Because plot?

 

Why would they classify the entire ship, including the spore drive and associated research. That had nothing to do with the creation of control. In retrospect it seems a pretty massive slap in the face to Janeway and the Voyager.

 

The visual and technological updates are total nonsense. When they made Enterprise a prequel, at least they had the decency to downgrade the technology to fit the timeline. Discovery upped the ante on all this to a pretty ridiculous degree... the Constitution class starship is not carrying around 200 freaking auxiliary craft!

 

Still no explanation of the frog klingons.

 

The writers of this show have a few major problems- one is that they continually write plot without creating supporting facts. They never bother to take the time to challenge their own ideas. Nobody in that writing room seems to care.

 

Another is that they only use canon for branding, not meaningful world building or service to a legacy. They want to tell their hacky story, be damned what came before (or may come after). Discovery is a cash grab, not a piece of art.

 

It all reeks of disrespect for everything that's been crafted for the last 50 years. I would rather see Star Trek die as a franchise than continue down this road.

 

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for who we really are!"

 

Now Fox needs to renew The Orville.

the point of this finale was specifically to take back many of the errors you mentioned. Discovery jumps ahead, where Klingons are Klingons, technology should be advanced, and future continuity mistakes can be kept down. That is why the finale was good. Don't waste time explaining mistakes, jump ahead and let us forget.

 

 

I love the Orville, btw. I wish Seth had been allowed to take over Trek. His respect for Trek is provenevery episode. The fact that the show isn't funny at all when it tries to be is the proof. It's the heart of Trek he wants, and succeeds admirably. The acting, however, is weak. Discovery has excellent acting.

 

But discovery is true To Trek's heart as well. People might pretend it wasn't integral, but the social justice stuff I discovery is exactly what Trek was really about.

[grep]

Those D-7s were beautiful.

[KenJennings]

the point of this finale was specifically to take back many of the errors you mentioned. Discovery jumps ahead, where Klingons are Klingons, technology should be advanced, and future continuity mistakes can be kept down. That is why the finale was good. Don't waste time explaining mistakes, jump ahead and let us forget.

 

Seriously? Sweeping two seasons of crap under the rug "makes it good"? They did nothing to take back any of the errors. They nonsensically packaged them up amid a series of inconsistencies and bizarre illogic, while launching the show off into a future that they can handle now with even less care.

 

Rather than doing the legwork that they signed up for when they chose to tell this story, they've just ripped apart the canon and left nothing but destruction in its wake... now they're going off to tear up the future.

 

 

The fact that the show isn't funny at all when it tries to be is the proof. It's the heart of Trek he wants, and succeeds admirably. The acting, however, is weak. Discovery has excellent acting.

 

LOL, in what world are you living. First off, the Orville regularly features some of the funniest content on modern TV, and second, Discovery's acting is forced and unimmersive. I don't get a single episode without contrived Michael Burnham angst; without ridiculously unprofessional Tilly bubbling through at inappropriate times; without an utterly unlikable and unrelatable Stamets... the bridge crew (who gets no meaningful attention until its time to die) sits around the galley having a blast playing their game of auto-antonyms! These people are off-putting, humorless, and depressing. I could never bring myself to invest in the characters Discovery chooses to portray, because they are so unrealistic and awkward... with perhaps the only exceptions being Anson Mount's brilliant portrayal of Captain Pike, Wilson Cruz's sincere and deeply troubled portrayal of Dr. Culber (stand out performances all season long from him) and a few of the minor characters like Tig Notaro's Jet Reno,...

 

I can admit The Orville isn't delivering stellar acting performances, but each of the cast fills their role just fine. Nobody's ever going to say that the likes of Shatner or Doohan were some titans of acting... but at least they portrayed vibrant, complete and likable characters. Just like the crew of the Orville. I would legitimately like to hang out with someone like Gordon, and I think Scott Grimes has actually done and incredible job with that character. I can honestly say Seth MacFarlane deserves praise for his acting too, as his strategy to 'play his best self' makes it an easy role for him to wear. Mark Jackson is brilliant as Isaac, conveying an amazing amount of personality through body language without a face, and doing the best orchestrated display of dispassion I've seen since Brent Spiner. Even the more weakly acted characters like John and Alara are given material that still makes their characters pop. Sprinkle in a few minor roles like Norm MacDonald's brilliantly deadpan Yaphet, the over-the-top joyous comic relief of Mike Henry's Lt. Dann, or the disconcertingly ominous, but still relatable portrayal of an alienated Moclan 'housewife' by Chad Coleman; and you've got a recipe for a meaningfully diverse ensemble of people who are flawed and awesome- who you'd actually like to continue investing in.

 

But discovery is true To Trek's heart as well. People might pretend it wasn't integral, but the social justice stuff I discovery is exactly what Trek was really about.

 

What social justice stuff? Seriously, where in Discovery's story was there any meaningful message about social justice? Where was there a lesson or parable for growth or analysis?

 

They shoehorned diversity into the show, and awkwardly highlight it in the most inappropriate ways possible. No lesson, nothing to challenge the mind of viewers; rather just a banner to galvanize opinions exactly where they are. Nobody is dared to grow by Discovery. If you are an SJW, you're given imagery to rally behind. If you're against the SJW stuff, you're simply left alienated. All iconography, no rhetoric.

 

Contrast the Orville- who uses alien situations to bring up parallels to modern issues. They don't simply fly a banner, they tell stories that challenge perceptions on an unbiased playing field. Where TOS taught lessons using things like white-half-black-half aliens to illustrate the futility of racism, The Orville uses the gender-challenged Moclans to illustrate the futility of gender and sexual biases. They challenged convictions of faith and pushed boundaries of tolerance with the Krill. They made a statement about animal rights with the Calivon. They spoke to matters of slavery, justice and supremacist ideologies with the Kaylon.

 

The Orville is doing the legwork with meaningful social justice parables. I don't see ANY of that from Discovery. I see a masturbatory exercise in galvanization and alienation. Par for the course from modern Hollywood.

 

There is no compare. The Orville is the successor to REAL Star Trek. Discovery is a poorly conceived, pandering, hollow money grab.

Edited May 4, 2019 by KenJennings

[Mosher]

I think you slightly misinterpret me. I was never saying Discovery does social justice better, the Orville is much more committed to the traditional star trek issue of the week template. A template I love, btw. I just think Discovery does this too. They do it more subtly, but I certainly do not mean simplistic window dressing of diversity. That's important, but not what I mean.

 

Second, Discovery's errors can't be explained away. They sucked, and leave two options- cancellation or running away. I really like the acting, and I liked the stories. I'd rather them run away than cancel. But no, I am not saying the episode was good because they ran away, it was good because I never have to see the bad stuff again. Subtle difference, but I want the bad stuff gone but the good stuff saved. They did that, and given that I already like the show to me that was a bonus. Since you already hate the show, it did nothing for you other than confirm that the show is screwed up.

 

I can see that point, but for someone who likes the show, seeing the bad flushed can only be good.

 

You understand me perfectly about the humor of the Orville. I love the show because it really is Star Trek at its core in the best possible ways. But the humor is terrible. I love Family Guy buy the way, it isn't an anti Seth thing. I just think the humor is awful in the Orville. But it is also infrequent. To me Seth clearly wanted to make a serious show that didn't get green lit. So he did the next best thing.

 

And although I completely disagree with your opinion on Stamets and Michael, I agree about both the doctor and Tilly. The guy who plays the doctor is excellent. And Tilly is the fault of terrible direction. They have her too scattered now, I love the character, but they should ask her to dial it back several notches.

 

While the spore drive is odd, it is one example of the social justice thing that is more subtle (at first). The entire arc of how we treat new life is a clear allegory to how we treat others. How we use each other for gain. How we carve up resources and exhaust their supply. That's just one of many. It's woven throughout the show. The arguments of justice vs. Law, might vs. Right, us vs. them vs. everyone.

The exercise of what choice is the most ethical is a integral part of the show.

 

As it is in Orville. Again, I'm a fan of both. But the Orville is by far the last subtle.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Mosher

[JohnRogers]

Trill episode mostly meh.

[Mosher]

Haven't watched the most recent episode yet, but this season is by far the best they've put together yet.

[KenJennings]

Trill episode mostly meh.

 

Yeah, felt like the CW does Star Trek.

[JohnRogers]

Haven't watched the most recent episode yet, but this season is by far the best they've put together yet.

Looks like STD has it’s Wesley Crusher.