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No, please - a punctuation thread.

 

To tell the truth sir, I've been twice lured to this fine section of your fine forum under false pretense. Once with a thread entitled "..." [aka ellipses] and one about brackets (i plead ignorance on the last one, being Canadian and all). I was hoping for some sort of madcap discourse on these topics, and was bitterly disappointed. This is the truth...

 

So, what's with commas? I know you can use 'and' and 'but' etc as splice words, and they can graft two different clauses together, but they seem to be more flexible that that, at least in fiction.

Comma query.

 

Kurt Vonnegut once famously wrote that semicolons "represent absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college."

Discuss.

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No, please - a punctuation thread.

 

To tell the truth sir, I've been twice lured to this fine section of your fine forum under false pretense. Once with a thread entitled "..." [aka ellipses] and one about brackets (i plead ignorance on the last one, being Canadian and all). I was hoping for some sort of madcap discourse on these topics, and was bitterly disappointed. This is the truth...

 

So, what's with commas? I know you can use 'and' and 'but' etc as splice words, and they can graft two different clauses together, but they seem to be more flexible that that, at least in fiction.

Comma query.

 

Kurt Vonnegut once famously wrote that semicolons "represent absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college."

Discuss.

 

Ahh, I see. You actually want to talk about punctuation marks and the many ways they can be used? Well, that's cool. The reason I thought you were starting a mindless spam thread was your opening post -- instead of setting up a discussion, you simply posted "!" That sort of opening post signals the next person to post a question mark forty times, then someone else a bunch of semicolons...

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No, please - a punctuation thread.

 

To tell the truth sir, I've been twice lured to this fine section of your fine forum under false pretense. Once with a thread entitled "..." [aka ellipses] and one about brackets (i plead ignorance on the last one, being Canadian and all). I was hoping for some sort of madcap discourse on these topics, and was bitterly disappointed. This is the truth...

 

So, what's with commas? I know you can use 'and' and 'but' etc as splice words, and they can graft two different clauses together, but they seem to be more flexible that that, at least in fiction.

Comma query.

 

Kurt Vonnegut once famously wrote that semicolons "represent absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college."

Discuss.

 

Ahh, I see. You actually want to talk about punctuation marks and the many ways they can be used? Well, that's cool. The reason I thought you were starting a mindless spam thread was your opening post -- instead of setting up a discussion, you simply posted "!" That sort of opening post signals the next person to post a question mark forty times, then someone else a bunch of semicolons...

 

No, I was fishing. Waiting for the inevitable "?" post. But you headed me off at the pass.

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Do people with semi-colons produce smaller bowel movements ??

 

This is an ageless question, and I'm glad you stopped by to make this inquiry.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssss

helpfully;

Very Full Colon

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Do people with semi-colons produce smaller bowel movements ??

 

This is an ageless question, and I'm glad you stopped by to make this inquiry.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssss

helpfully;

Very Full Colon

In the olden days, coal miners used to get a huge coal-on
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My favorite punctuation mark is the semicolon; however, it is difficult to use correctly:

 

Semicolons link two independent clauses; said clauses must be relevant to each other.

 

A semicolon can also be used to separate items in a complicated list, such as when individual items contain commas: Albany, New York; Trenton, New Jersey; Harrisburg, Pennsylvania; and Dover, Delaware.

 

Do not simply throw a semicolon between two unrelated independent clauses; readers become confused when this happens.

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Do not simply throw a semicolon between two unrelated independent clauses; readers become confused when this happens.

I'd be willing to bet the your use of a semi-colon there would look weird, but wouldn't impede the message, really. A lot of the angst attached to "proper" punctuation" is built around a mythology created by schooling, rather than actual linguistic necessity.
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Commas are like eels; just when you think you've grasped them, they wiggle away and leave slime on you.

 

I'm interested in how punctuation can help the flow of the sentence/writing, without obscuring the meaning of what's written.

It's interesting to see how different authors (or the same author over time) use these strange little tools.

For example, sometimes, when overused, commas can, in a way, make it feel like you're climbing stairs, albeit short, useless ones.

And other times, a nice rhythm can be created with good use of punctuation - which I obviously have no mastery over!

I've been thumbing through the Little/Brown Essential Handbook just to try to get a better handle on the situation.

 

"There ain't no comma like a Pythagorean comma." - Harry Partch

"Poor punctuation is a finger in your eye." - Truman Capote

"Truman Capote is a finger in your eye." - Harper Lee

[taken from the Oxford Collection of Made-Up Quotes v.2]

 

300px-PythagoreanTuningGeometric.png

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Sadly, colons and semi-colons now mainly get used so that people can smile or wink at each other
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Commas are like eels; just when you think you've grasped them, they wiggle away and leave slime on you.

 

I'm interested in how punctuation can help the flow of the sentence/writing, without obscuring the meaning of what's written.

It's interesting to see how different authors (or the same author over time) use these strange little tools.

For example, sometimes, when overused, commas can, in a way, make it feel like you're climbing stairs, albeit short, useless ones.

And other times, a nice rhythm can be created with good use of punctuation - which I obviously have no mastery over!

I've been thumbing through the Little/Brown Essential Handbook just to try to get a better handle on the situation.

 

"There ain't no comma like a Pythagorean comma." - Harry Partch

"Poor punctuation is a finger in your eye." - Truman Capote

"Truman Capote is a finger in your eye." - Harper Lee

[taken from the Oxford Collection of Made-Up Quotes v.2]

 

300px-PythagoreanTuningGeometric.png

That is very interesting to think about. Punctuation is great as a rhythm device. For instance, take a look at this short story, which is often attributed to Ernest Hemingway:

 

"For sale: baby shoes, never worn."

 

The colon and comma present in the six-word sentence (if it can even be called a sentence) slow the reader down when reading it. It makes me feel very uncomfortable. It's almost a laborious task to read aloud. I won't get into in-depth story analysis in a punctuation thread, but it is pretty neat that two little punctuation marks can so drastically change the way a person reads something.

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Commas are like eels; just when you think you've grasped them, they wiggle away and leave slime on you.

 

I'm interested in how punctuation can help the flow of the sentence/writing, without obscuring the meaning of what's written.

It's interesting to see how different authors (or the same author over time) use these strange little tools.

For example, sometimes, when overused, commas can, in a way, make it feel like you're climbing stairs, albeit short, useless ones.

And other times, a nice rhythm can be created with good use of punctuation - which I obviously have no mastery over!

I've been thumbing through the Little/Brown Essential Handbook just to try to get a better handle on the situation.

 

"There ain't no comma like a Pythagorean comma." - Harry Partch

"Poor punctuation is a finger in your eye." - Truman Capote

"Truman Capote is a finger in your eye." - Harper Lee

[taken from the Oxford Collection of Made-Up Quotes v.2]

 

300px-PythagoreanTuningGeometric.png

That is very interesting to think about. Punctuation is great as a rhythm device. For instance, take a look at this short story, which is often attributed to Ernest Hemingway:

 

"For sale: baby shoes, never worn."

 

The colon and comma present in the six-word sentence (if it can even be called a sentence) slow the reader down when reading it. It makes me feel very uncomfortable. It's almost a laborious task to read aloud. I won't get into in-depth story analysis in a punctuation thread, but it is pretty neat that two little punctuation marks can so drastically change the way a person reads something.

 

Kerouac used punctuation to his advantage before he p1ssed it all away. The way he used (or didn't use) it gave a real sense of urgency or propulsion to his vision of 1940s USA.

The first page of Capote's "In Cold Blood" is a great example of damn good punctuatin'. Damn good.

 

http://gfx.zetchilli.pl/var/zetchilli/storage/images/rozrywka/tv-i-show/chyba-kazdy-marzy-o-gadzecie-ze-swiata-twin-peaks-juz-mozemy-je-kupic-2853/98796-1-pol-PL/Chyba-kazdy-marzy-o-gadzecie-ze-swiata-Twin-Peaks-Juz-mozemy-je-kupic_article.jpg

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Commas are like eels; just when you think you've grasped them, they wiggle away and leave slime on you.

 

 

If commas were like eels I would've killed some and told my chef to prep and cook 'em up a long time ago!

 

http://www.unagi-edoya.com/flash/assets_c/2014/10/mainimage01-thumb-750x450-370.jpg

 

http://hamanako-kokonoe.jp/dayplan/unagi/file/1050/%E6%B5%9C%E5%90%8D%E6%B9%96%E3%81%86%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8E.jpg

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Commas are like eels; just when you think you've grasped them, they wiggle away and leave slime on you.

 

 

If commas were like eels I would've killed some and told my chef to prep and cook 'em up a long time ago!

 

http://www.unagi-edoya.com/flash/assets_c/2014/10/mainimage01-thumb-750x450-370.jpg

 

http://hamanako-kokonoe.jp/dayplan/unagi/file/1050/%E6%B5%9C%E5%90%8D%E6%B9%96%E3%81%86%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8E.jpg

 

Damn you and your Southeast Asian delights, Blaze! Who can concentrate on eels commas now?

 

A comma can be used to connect two eels...no. An eel can be used...no dammit!

The semi-colon, also known as unagi...oh hell I give up.

Punk Chew Asian

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Commas are like eels; just when you think you've grasped them, they wiggle away and leave slime on you.

 

 

If commas were like eels I would've killed some and told my chef to prep and cook 'em up a long time ago!

 

http://www.unagi-edoya.com/flash/assets_c/2014/10/mainimage01-thumb-750x450-370.jpg

 

http://hamanako-kokonoe.jp/dayplan/unagi/file/1050/%E6%B5%9C%E5%90%8D%E6%B9%96%E3%81%86%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8E.jpg

 

Damn you and your Southeast Asian delights, Blaze! Who can concentrate on eels commas now?

 

A comma can be used to connect two eels...no. An eel can be used...no dammit!

The semi-colon, also known as unagi...oh hell I give up.

Punk Chew Asian

I just finished dinner about 5 minutes ago ((commas not eels are inlcuded here just keep it on topic)): sushi, sashimi, tako no karage [fried octopus], steamed broccoli, salad, and sake. More sake now! :hail:

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Commas are like eels; just when you think you've grasped them, they wiggle away and leave slime on you.

 

 

If commas were like eels I would've killed some and told my chef to prep and cook 'em up a long time ago!

 

http://www.unagi-edoya.com/flash/assets_c/2014/10/mainimage01-thumb-750x450-370.jpg

 

http://hamanako-kokonoe.jp/dayplan/unagi/file/1050/%E6%B5%9C%E5%90%8D%E6%B9%96%E3%81%86%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8E.jpg

 

Damn you and your Southeast Asian delights, Blaze! Who can concentrate on eels commas now?

 

A comma can be used to connect two eels...no. An eel can be used...no dammit!

The semi-colon, also known as unagi...oh hell I give up.

Punk Chew Asian

I just finished dinner about 5 minutes ago ((commas not eels are inlcuded here just keep it on topic)): sushi, sashimi, tako no karage [fried octopus], steamed broccoli, salad, and sake. More sake now! :hail:

I guess technically that unagi in the pic up there isn't Southeast Asia but specifically Japan. In any case, I'd bite the hell out of it commas or no commas!!!!

 

:blaze:

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I saw something on the news yesterday that I thought would fit with the theme of this thread:

 

Lack of 'Oxford comma' wins truckers in US $10 mn

 

 

A class-action lawsuit about overtime pay for truck drivers hinged entirely on a debate that has often proved bitterly divisive: the dreaded - or totally necessary - Oxford comma, perhaps the most polarizing of punctuation marks.

 

What ensued in the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit, and in a 29-page court decision handed down on Monday, was an exercise in high-stakes grammar pedantry that could cost a dairy company in Portland, Maine, an estimated $10 million.

In 2014, three truck drivers sued Oakhurst Dairy, seeking more than four years' worth of overtime pay that they had been denied. Maine law requires workers to be paid 1.5 times their normal rate for each hour worked after 40 hours, but it carves out some exemptions.

A necessary note on punctuation: in a list of three or more items, like ''beans, potatoes and rice'', some people would put a comma after potatoes, and some would leave it out. A lot of people feel very, very strongly about it.

 

The debate over commas before linking words like 'and' and 'or' is often a pretty inconsequential one, but it was anything but for the truck drivers. Note the lack of Oxford comma - also known as the serial comma - in the following state law, which says overtime rules do not apply to:

The canning, processing, preserving, freezing, drying, marketing, storing, packing for shipment or distribution of:

(1) Agricultural produce;

(2) Meat and fish products; and

(3) Perishable foods.

 

Does the law intend to exempt the distribution of the three categories that follow, or does it mean to exempt packing for the shipping or distribution of them?

Delivery drivers distribute perishable foods, but they don't pack the boxes themselves. Whether the drivers were subject to a law that had denied them thousands of dollars a year depended entirely on how the sentence was read.

 

If there were a comma after ''shipment,'' it might have been clear that the law exempted the distribution of perishable foods. But the appeals court on Monday sided with the drivers, saying the absence of a comma produced enough uncertainty to rule in their favour. It reversed a lower court decision.

No comma, no clarity

In other words: Oxford comma defenders won this round.

 

''That comma would have sunk our ship,'' David G Webbert, a lawyer who represented the drivers, said in an interview on Wednesday.

Edited by Your_Lion
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