30 replies to this topic

[jamie]

I'm pretty curious to hear what you all have to say about this topic since it's pretty debatable and even a little controversial. To some people, common physical illnesses/injuries (the flu, sciatica, food poisoning) and common mental illnesses (anxiety, mild depression) can be self diagnosed. To others, most mental illnesses should be diagnosed by a professional. But there are people who do believe you can diagnose yourself with "complex" disorders such as autism, eating disorders, personality disorders, etc. And no, im not talking about taking online quizzes to diagnose yourself. I'm talking about plenty of research, outside opinions, and having a history of symptoms.

Personally I believe that some common physical and mental disorders can be self-diagnosed (with depression it can be difficult though), but when it comes to a lot of mental disorders, you can never be really sure. Psychiatrists and doctors go through years of school and training to analyze, diagnose, and treat various disorders and therefor I don't think you can't really assume that you have a disorder. Of course if you think that you may have one, you could always go to a doctor, or even multiple doctors, to see what they have to say. I have suspected that I have borderline personality disorder for a little over two years now and even after doing plenty of research I still don't feel comfortable saying that I have it because I'm not a doctor.

[Lucas]

It is extremely important to find a health practitioner who understands ..

With that said, Western doctors are not taught about health - they are taught to follow the AMA guidelines on giving names to a set of symptoms and prescribing a Band-Aid medication(s) to placate the patient ..

Jamie, what exactly is borderline personality disorder or BPD ?? ( everything now has an acronym - and I do know what it "is" ) .. There is no BPD blood test and you cannot see it on imagining .... It is a name given to symptoms that doctors have no interest in finding the root cause of ..


Most doctors offices are cattle calls in which you get a few minutes to tell a representative of big pharma what you are feeling, and then they give you a prescription ..

Even with all those years of medical school, try asking a doctor "Why is this happening ?"

It is YOUR body, YOUR life and you have every right to figure out what is going on ... There is nothing wrong with educating yourself, provided that you are reading reputable sources ( NOT online quizzes )

That is when you should seek out an MD, an herbalist, an acupuncturist or whoever you feel is best to help you ..

Empower yourself, educate yourself ... and one of the most important things is to use common sense ..

Edited by Lucas, 05 March 2017 - 11:42 PM.

[jamie]

Lucas, on 05 March 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

It is extremely important to find a health practitioner who understands ..

With that said, Western doctors are not taught about health - they are taught to follow the AMA guidelines on giving names to a set of symptoms and prescribing a Band-Aid medication(s) to placate the patient ..

Jamie, what exactly is borderline personality disorder or BPD ?? ( everything now has an acronym - and I do know what it "is" ) .. There is no BPD blood test and you cannot see it on imagining .... It is a name given to symptoms that doctors have no interest in finding the root cause of ..


Most doctors offices are cattle calls in which you get a few minutes to tell a representative of big pharma what you are feeling, and then they give you a prescription ..

Even with all those years of medical school, try asking a doctor "Why is this happening ?"

It is YOUR body, YOUR life and you have every right to figure out what is going on ... There is nothing wrong with educating yourself, provided that you are reading reputable sources ( NOT online quizzes )

That is when you should seek out an MD, an herbalist, an acupuncturist or whoever you feel is best to help you ..

Empower yourself, educate yourself ... and one of the most important things is to use common sense ..

I agree with you Lucas, not all doctors understand and it's important to educate yourself for sure. Self-diagnosing is something that should have plenty of actual research in hand.

And for clarification, BPD is a mental illness that centers on the inability to manage emotions effectively. Most people who have BPD suffer from problems regulating their emotions and thoughts, impulsive and sometimes reckless behavior, and unstable relationships. You can go here for more info.

[Lucas]

jamie, on 05 March 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

Lucas, on 05 March 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

It is extremely important to find a health practitioner who understands ..

With that said, Western doctors are not taught about health - they are taught to follow the AMA guidelines on giving names to a set of symptoms and prescribing a Band-Aid medication(s) to placate the patient ..

Jamie, what exactly is borderline personality disorder or BPD ?? ( everything now has an acronym - and I do know what it "is" ) .. There is no BPD blood test and you cannot see it on imagining .... It is a name given to symptoms that doctors have no interest in finding the root cause of ..


Most doctors offices are cattle calls in which you get a few minutes to tell a representative of big pharma what you are feeling, and then they give you a prescription ..

Even with all those years of medical school, try asking a doctor "Why is this happening ?"

It is YOUR body, YOUR life and you have every right to figure out what is going on ... There is nothing wrong with educating yourself, provided that you are reading reputable sources ( NOT online quizzes )

That is when you should seek out an MD, an herbalist, an acupuncturist or whoever you feel is best to help you ..

Empower yourself, educate yourself ... and one of the most important things is to use common sense ..

I agree with you Lucas, not all doctors understand and it's important to educate yourself for sure. Self-diagnosing is something that should have plenty of actual research in hand.

And for clarification, BPD is a mental illness that centers on the inability to manage emotions effectively. Most people who have BPD suffer from problems regulating their emotions and thoughts, impulsive and sometimes reckless behavior, and unstable relationships. You can go here for more info.

Jamie, yes, I am familiar with the term BPD, and the symptoms associated ... I was just sort of cynically posing the question because it is just a term given to the symptoms - a lot of things can cause those symptoms, and that is what I think is important ..

It is very very real, but my issue is the way it might be handled and "treated"

[jamie]

Lucas, on 06 March 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

jamie, on 05 March 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

Lucas, on 05 March 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

It is extremely important to find a health practitioner who understands ..

With that said, Western doctors are not taught about health - they are taught to follow the AMA guidelines on giving names to a set of symptoms and prescribing a Band-Aid medication(s) to placate the patient ..

Jamie, what exactly is borderline personality disorder or BPD ?? ( everything now has an acronym - and I do know what it "is" ) .. There is no BPD blood test and you cannot see it on imagining .... It is a name given to symptoms that doctors have no interest in finding the root cause of ..


Most doctors offices are cattle calls in which you get a few minutes to tell a representative of big pharma what you are feeling, and then they give you a prescription ..

Even with all those years of medical school, try asking a doctor "Why is this happening ?"

It is YOUR body, YOUR life and you have every right to figure out what is going on ... There is nothing wrong with educating yourself, provided that you are reading reputable sources ( NOT online quizzes )

That is when you should seek out an MD, an herbalist, an acupuncturist or whoever you feel is best to help you ..

Empower yourself, educate yourself ... and one of the most important things is to use common sense ..

I agree with you Lucas, not all doctors understand and it's important to educate yourself for sure. Self-diagnosing is something that should have plenty of actual research in hand.

And for clarification, BPD is a mental illness that centers on the inability to manage emotions effectively. Most people who have BPD suffer from problems regulating their emotions and thoughts, impulsive and sometimes reckless behavior, and unstable relationships. You can go here for more info.

Jamie, yes, I am familiar with the term BPD, and the symptoms associated ... I was just sort of cynically posing the question because it is just a term given to the symptoms - a lot of things can cause those symptoms, and that is what I think is important ..

It is very very real, but my issue is the way it might be handled and "treated"

Ah i see what you're saying.

[Lucas]

As an example, here is a medical report on mood and impulsive disorders associated with B12 deficiency

This is a technical report and is kinda dry, but it illustrates how a vitamin deficiency can cause terrible symptoms

( just one example )

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3404901/

[treeduck]

Dr. Lucas is in the house.

[condemned2bfree]

Does any body here, know of, or have access to, the average life expectancy data, of G.P.'s?

[JohnnyBlaze]

Lucas, on 05 March 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

It is extremely important to find a health practitioner who understands ..

With that said, Western doctors are not taught about health - they are taught to follow the AMA guidelines on giving names to a set of symptoms and prescribing a Band-Aid medication(s) to placate the patient ..

Jamie, what exactly is borderline personality disorder or BPD ?? ( everything now has an acronym - and I do know what it "is" ) .. There is no BPD blood test and you cannot see it on imagining .... It is a name given to symptoms that doctors have no interest in finding the root cause of ..


Most doctors offices are cattle calls in which you get a few minutes to tell a representative of big pharma what you are feeling, and then they give you a prescription ..

Even with all those years of medical school, try asking a doctor "Why is this happening ?"

It is YOUR body, YOUR life and you have every right to figure out what is going on ... There is nothing wrong with educating yourself, provided that you are reading reputable sources ( NOT online quizzes )

That is when you should seek out an MD, an herbalist, an acupuncturist or whoever you feel is best to help you ..

Empower yourself, educate yourself ... and one of the most important things is to use common sense ..

I agree.
But ahhhhh, common sense. Those that don't have any or little don't know they don't have any or little.

Sure, we can self diagnose but that doesn't mean we're correct or even remotely accurate.

It reminds me of a person who wants to do his own home improvement repairs but doesn't really know what he's doing.

So yeah, read read read up THEN seek a pro.

Edited by JohnnyBlaze, 06 March 2017 - 09:57 AM.

[Brucey]

I had a strong suspicion that I had social anxiety, that turned out to be correct. I wasn't aware that I had dysthymia until earlier on this year.

[Fridge]

It's a very dangerous thing to self-diagnose...sure, you can research and point yourself in the right direction, but much of the information out there (especially the internet) is deeply flawed or downright misleading.....as someone who has a fair amount of medical training, I would challenge Lucas' "band aid" statement, and would query what professional knowledge he has to underpin it.

I made a mistake in thinking I had Aspergers for years, but turns out it was actually BPD, which was only diagnosed after I had been confirmed rapid cycling bipolar for a while......BPD tends to get a bit easier to deal with as you age, because you learn how to "filter" how you react to things, even though you may feel differently inside.

In short, try and ensure you have the best quality info you can from the most reputable sources, and by all means inform yourself, but ALWAYS seek professional advice before going any further....in any case, if you do have something which requires intervention/treatment the chances are that only a professional will be licensed to provide it anyway.

[Gompers]

The mind plays tricks. One can readily convince themselves they have an affliction, and if they are looking on-line, they are already partially sold. Unless we are talking something physically obvious, consult a professional or two.

[Blue J]

condemned2bfree, on 06 March 2017 - 02:53 AM, said:

Does any body here, know of, or have access to, the average life expectancy data, of G.P.'s?

That would be interesting to know, yes.

Most of the references here have been with regard to psychological and emotional health, but I've been thinking more about strictly physical.

My father's wife spent a big part of her life as a vegetarian, and then a vegan...not for any political reasons, but only because she is convinced that it's in the name of good health that she has done so. She's done things like trotting off to 'health farms', in California, in Florida, in Bermuda- she would think nothing of just taking off for 5-6 weeks and staying at places like that- I guess in order to learn about being as healthy as she possibly can for herself.

I don't know what medical problems she has had, as that's generally just not talked about, at all. But she doesn't go to doctors at all; doesn't trust any of them, or any of their remedies. She'll read up on something as much as she can on her own, follow vitamin regimens, become either more or less strict about what she eats (she will eat meat now- but not much. I've been sort of surprised anytime I see her eat any meat, because she's spent so long not touching it, or any dairy products, at all).

She's in her early 60s now. Most of her hair has fallen out, her skin without make-up is ashen, and her body appears almost anorexically thin. I can't help but think that she has missed out on a lot that would make her healthier if she'd only consumed what I consider to be a more 'normal' diet. I don't mean to pass judgment, but like I said, I just can't help but think that. I'm not convinced that anything she's done for the sake of health has actually made her any healthier, nor that she will live appreciably longer than anyone else.

[Ancient Ways]

You left out the option for
No: I don't think you can self diagnose illnesses which is the only option I would select.

If acting as your own lawyer means you have a fool for a client it must be worse to act as your own doctor (especially if you're largely untrained).

[Ancient Ways]

Lucas, on 06 March 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

As an example, here is a medical report on mood and impulsive disorders associated with B12 deficiency

This is a technical report and is kinda dry, but it illustrates how a vitamin deficiency can cause terrible symptoms

( just one example )

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3404901/

Why post that that when literally everyone is familiar with scurvy?  Of course deficiencies in important minerals and vitamins can be a problem.  My doctor ran a dna analysis of me and discovered I have a rare condition in which my body doesn't make very much vitamin D and I need to take a daily supplement.  I never knew I had it because the way I felt was "normal" to me.  Supplementing was an eye opener.

[Lucas]

Ancient Ways, on 18 March 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

Lucas, on 06 March 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

As an example, here is a medical report on mood and impulsive disorders associated with B12 deficiency

This is a technical report and is kinda dry, but it illustrates how a vitamin deficiency can cause terrible symptoms

( just one example )

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3404901/

Why post that that when literally everyone is familiar with scurvy?  Of course deficiencies in important minerals and vitamins can be a problem.  My doctor ran a dna analysis of me and discovered I have a rare condition in which my body doesn't make very much vitamin D and I need to take a daily supplement.  I never knew I had it because the way I felt was "normal" to me.  Supplementing was an eye opener.

Scurvy ??  .. That's a vitamin C deficiency

You're living in denial if you think your average GP is going to take a B12 test when a patient presents with symptoms relating to OCD, anxiety, social issues, etc .....

And as I pointed out - JUST ONE EXAMPLE

B12 is just one deficiency

Of all the people here who have seen doctors for anxiety and other mood related issues, I'd love to know how many doctors took B12 tests before doling out prescriptions for SSRIs and other band aids ..

There is no health care industry in this country anymore ... It is a sickness industry, and the only way to remain healthy is to educate yourself, read and ask questions

[jamie]

Ancient Ways, on 18 March 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

You left out the option for
No: I don't think you can self diagnose illnesses which is the only option I would select.

If acting as your own lawyer means you have a fool for a client it must be worse to act as your own doctor (especially if you're largely untrained).

so not even common things like the flu?

[Fridge]

Lucas, on 18 March 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

Of all the people here who have seen doctors for anxiety and other mood related issues, I'd love to know how many doctors took B12 tests before doling out prescriptions for SSRIs and other band aids ..

There is no health care industry in this country anymore ... It is a sickness industry, and the only way to remain healthy is to educate yourself, read and ask questions

I had comprehensive blood tests done before I went on to my medicine regime...you tar the medical profession with the same brush, but ours are not financially motivated as we have a National Health Service (you said in another post all WESTERN doctors follow the AMA).

Again, I am very interested to find out the level of your Medical training that allows you to make such sweeping statements...

[Lucas]

Fridge, on 19 March 2017 - 03:10 AM, said:

Lucas, on 18 March 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

Of all the people here who have seen doctors for anxiety and other mood related issues, I'd love to know how many doctors took B12 tests before doling out prescriptions for SSRIs and other band aids ..

There is no health care industry in this country anymore ... It is a sickness industry, and the only way to remain healthy is to educate yourself, read and ask questions

I had comprehensive blood tests done before I went on to my medicine regime...you tar the medical profession with the same brush, but ours are not financially motivated as we have a National Health Service (you said in another post all WESTERN doctors follow the AMA).

Again, I am very interested to find out the level of your Medical training that allows you to make such sweeping statements...

In the late 90s, I was a 2nd year pre med student with aspirations of becoming a psychiatrist ... When my dad died during a routine stress test at a hospital, it changed my world in two ways:  I lost my best friend, unnecessarily, and I decided instead of pursuing a medical career, I choose to return to the family business ( auto repair and restoration ) that my parents had begun in 1982 .. That business meant everything to him, as he and my Mom sold their wedding bands to start it ..

Soon after, my Mom developed blood clots in her legs .. I stood there while her doctor told her that she would require surgery, and be on Heparin for the rest of her life ...... At that point, we took her to a integrative MD with practiced acupuncture ... Not only did he completely clear the blood clots with acupuncture and herbs, but he also helped my Mom kick a 25+ year Valium habit ... ( Mom is current 86 years old and still going to work everyday )

Personally, I have experienced the worst of the worst in doctors with my own health, which, if you are interested, I will write about ... But my recovery began with falling back on what I had learned, plus a lot of common sense - something that I feel Western doctors do not apply often enough to their diagnosis ..

I volunteer with a lyme disease support group here in NJ, as this infection has become epidemic here in NJ, and until recently, along with the host of other infections transmitted by ticks, was largely ignored by doctors, even to the point of denial ..

It was by my own unflinching refusal to believe that my condition was "for life" : when I was unable to walk up and down stairs unassisted and I had anxiety so bad that I could no longer go outside my home, I was told "that's it" ... bullshit

There are a lot of very good things people can do on their own to solve health issues that they absolutely should present and speak with a good doctor about ...

Ancient Ways mentioned a DNA test and Vitamin D - tests like these were all but out of the question a decade ago to anyone but a specialist, but now can be done thru simple saliva tests very reasonably and accurately thru a service like 23and Me ..

What a lot of doctors dislike about this is that all of a sudden, their patient has valuable tests results or info that they ( the doctor ) have no idea how to interpret or how to go about treating ..

Again, I am NOT in favor of someone doing anything without the guidance of a good MD or other doc ... But in the course of my recovery, due to all the reading I have done, my limited education and from speaking the other people who have gone thru or are going thru what I did, I feel THAT was as important as part of me getting my life back as anything ..

There is a reason for everything .. Just keep asking WHY and if your doctor doesn't have an answer, get another doctor

Edited by Lucas, 19 March 2017 - 03:43 PM.

[Fridge]

Lucas, on 19 March 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

Fridge, on 19 March 2017 - 03:10 AM, said:

Lucas, on 18 March 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

Of all the people here who have seen doctors for anxiety and other mood related issues, I'd love to know how many doctors took B12 tests before doling out prescriptions for SSRIs and other band aids ..

There is no health care industry in this country anymore ... It is a sickness industry, and the only way to remain healthy is to educate yourself, read and ask questions

I had comprehensive blood tests done before I went on to my medicine regime...you tar the medical profession with the same brush, but ours are not financially motivated as we have a National Health Service (you said in another post all WESTERN doctors follow the AMA).

Again, I am very interested to find out the level of your Medical training that allows you to make such sweeping statements...

In the late 90s, I was a 2nd year pre med student with aspirations of becoming a psychiatrist ... When my dad died during a routine stress test at a hospital, it changed my world in two ways:  I lost my best friend, unnecessarily, and I decided instead of pursuing a medical career, I choose to return to the family business ( auto repair and restoration ) that my parents had begun in 1982 .. That business meant everything to him, as he and my Mom sold their wedding bands to start it ..

Soon after, my Mom developed blood clots in her legs .. I stood there while her doctor told her that she would require surgery, and be on Heparin for the rest of her life ...... At that point, we took her to a integrative MD with practiced acupuncture ... Not only did he completely clear the blood clots with acupuncture and herbs, but he also helped my Mom kick a 25+ year Valium habit ... ( Mom is current 86 years old and still going to work everyday )

Personally, I have experienced the worst of the worst in doctors with my own health, which, if you are interested, I will write about ... But my recovery began with falling back on what I had learned, plus a lot of common sense - something that I feel Western doctors do not apply often enough to their diagnosis ..

I volunteer with a lyme disease support group here in NJ, as this infection has become epidemic here in NJ, and until recently, along with the host of other infections transmitted by ticks, was largely ignored by doctors, even to the point of denial ..

It was by my own unflinching refusal to believe that my condition was "for life" : when I was unable to walk up and down stairs unassisted and I had anxiety so bad that I could no longer go outside my home, I was told "that's it" ... bullshit

There are a lot of very good things people can do on their own to solve health issues that they absolutely should present and speak with a good doctor about ...

Ancient Ways mentioned a DNA test and Vitamin D - tests like these were all but out of the question a decade ago to anyone but a specialist, but now can be done thru simple saliva tests very reasonably and accurately thru a service like 23and Me ..

What a lot of doctors dislike about this is that all of a sudden, their patient has valuable tests results or info that they ( the doctor ) have no idea how to interpret or how to go about treating ..

Again, I am NOT in favor of someone doing anything without the guidance of a good MD or other doc ... But in the course of my recovery, due to all the reading I have done, my limited education and from speaking the other people who have gone thru or are going thru what I did, I feel THAT was as important as part of me getting my life back as anything ..

There is a reason for everything .. Just keep asking WHY and if your doctor doesn't have an answer, get another doctor

All very interesting, but it doesn't alter the fact that your experience is exclusively with American, not WESTERN doctors, and it certainty doesn't mirror the experiences that I and  many others I know have had over here.

Taking responsibility for your healthcare is of course a very responsible thing to do, something I practice myself.

Your anecdotes, whilst you have my sympathy, are certainly not evidence of the entire medical profession misperforming.