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Rating, Ranking, and Favoritism

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#21 Fridge

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:25 AM

Never felt the need to categorise music beyond good. mediocre/shit etc .....it all depends on how a particular song resonates emotionally with me at the time.

Of course I have favourite bands and albums, but I don't have a fondness for lists or categories etc. It's one of the reasons why I can't stand the endless creation of meaningless sub-genres in music

Edited by Fridge, 25 January 2017 - 05:25 AM.


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#22 stoopid

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:34 AM

There's your opinion, there's my opinion, and there's the truth.

#23 Entre_Perpetuo

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:59 PM

View PostMr. Not, on 25 January 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

I used to use 10-point scale ratings (and even hexadecimal when Lenny was around, that was a fun phase) but now I swear by the 5 star system, which is conveniently ingrained in windows properties for audio filetypes ;)

I don't care to cross-rank bands and their efforts, but in the event that I do that I need to be sure that there will be no discrepancies... Discrepancies happened when I rated out of 10.
I might have rated a song by 'Band A' 8/10 while I rated a song by 'Band B' 7/10 - but in actuality find that I like Band B's song better. This occurs due to change of opinion over time as well as feelings at the time of rating and reviewing (past and present), and there's nothing I can really do to take that out of the rating process. However, I can remedy this problem by simplifying the rating scale, making it more dependable.
Another problem I've noticed with ranking songs based on previous ratings I've set is that I notice I'll be more or less generous to a certain song's rating relative to its respective album's overall quality. That hasn't happened with the 5 star rating, but it happened with the 10 point often. Band A's song is now 4/5 instead of 8/10, and Band B's is 4/5 instead of 7/10. Problem solved.

I usually only try doing ten point or star ratings of things when I'm ranking albums or songs against each other and having a hard time deciding. However, I also discovered this isn't always as reflective of my opinion towards an album as I think it will be, because there's no reason for News Of The World not to be my favorite Queen album by the systems I used, yet I know I could never rank it ahead of A Night At The Opera.

#24 toscanobarga

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 02:03 PM

Small minds think only in numbers.

Using a "rank each song" system completely removes the emotional impact an album may have when taken as a whole It's why Albums are still the greatest medium for music in my opinion.

#25 Entre_Perpetuo

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 02:22 PM

View Posttoscanobarga, on 25 January 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Small minds think only in numbers.

Using a "rank each song" system completely removes the emotional impact an album may have when taken as a whole It's why Albums are still the greatest medium for music in my opinion.

Someone who still uses a rank each song system and still feels huge emotional impact from listening to full albums might disagree with you there.

#26 toscanobarga

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 02:27 PM

View PostEntre_Perpetuo, on 25 January 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Posttoscanobarga, on 25 January 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Small minds think only in numbers.

Using a "rank each song" system completely removes the emotional impact an album may have when taken as a whole It's why Albums are still the greatest medium for music in my opinion.

Someone who still uses a rank each song system and still feels huge emotional impact from listening to full albums might disagree with you there.

I said small minds think ONLY in numbers, that wouldn't be the person you describe.

#27 Rutlefan

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 02:29 PM

View Postgoose, on 24 January 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

View PostA rocket that ignites itself, on 24 January 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

I've always enjoyed lists, rankings, polls, etc.  For me it's making something I'm into more personal and my own.  These are "my" favorite  (songs, albums...whatever)...they mean this much to me.  Not obsessive at all.  I just like to compare, discuss, ponder.

I think it's a cross over from my enjoyment of fantasy sports.  I like to compare stats, make draft lists, analyze things.
I enjoy weighing the difference between "favorite" and "best".  I know that some of my favorite music (DEVO, X, April Wine) isn't the "best" music, but somehow I'm moved by it more than other bands.

April Wine!

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#28 driventotheedge

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 02:43 PM

View PostRutlefan, on 25 January 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

View Postgoose, on 24 January 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

View PostA rocket that ignites itself, on 24 January 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

I've always enjoyed lists, rankings, polls, etc.  For me it's making something I'm into more personal and my own.  These are "my" favorite  (songs, albums...whatever)...they mean this much to me.  Not obsessive at all.  I just like to compare, discuss, ponder.

I think it's a cross over from my enjoyment of fantasy sports.  I like to compare stats, make draft lists, analyze things.
I enjoy weighing the difference between "favorite" and "best".  I know that some of my favorite music (DEVO, X, April Wine) isn't the "best" music, but somehow I'm moved by it more than other bands.

April Wine!

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If You See Kay......

#29 Entre_Perpetuo

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 03:30 PM

View Posttoscanobarga, on 25 January 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostEntre_Perpetuo, on 25 January 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Posttoscanobarga, on 25 January 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Small minds think only in numbers.

Using a "rank each song" system completely removes the emotional impact an album may have when taken as a whole It's why Albums are still the greatest medium for music in my opinion.

Someone who still uses a rank each song system and still feels huge emotional impact from listening to full albums might disagree with you there.

I said small minds think ONLY in numbers, that wouldn't be the person you describe.

My mistake I suppose. I took you as meaning anyone who uses such a system is removing the emotional impact albums might have on them, which I found very unlikely if not just false. I suppose if one becomes too obsessed with rankings and ratings the emotional impact can get lost in the shuffle, but I think most people are a little less obsessive about it than that.

#30 cygnify

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 04:05 PM

I have often wanted to rank things (probably partially due to OCD); however, I find that nearly any music ranking system that I come up with is always flawed.  I think this is because I have irrational connections to some discs compared to others - the deepness of a connection that I have with an album from 30 years ago and any emotional connection that I have with that time is nearly impossible to reconcile with my absolute favorite album from last year.  I also find my criteria shifts and I like to listen to different things for different reasons Sometimes I need thrash metal, sometimes I need jazz.  Try ranking Slayer next to Miles Davis.  Also, sometimes I need Gavin Harrison on drums, other times Jerry Gaskill fits the bill.  Even when looking at band/groups/musicians that I follow - I can sort-of separate out my "top tier"; that is, my all-time favorites (Rush, Zep, Yes, Floyd, Krimson, PTree/SW) but even with that there are the borderline bands that are current favorites that I currently listen to much more often than any of those hall-of-famers.  Or bands that I loved some of their output, but not really all of it (Yes fits this, but Classic Yes + 80's Yes still outweighs more recent flops, IMHO. Another example: I really loved Fish-era Marillion, but not at all H era.)

I can certainly distinguish between bands I like and bands I don't like - and usually between albums that are absolute favorites vs. just "like" vs. don't like (and then there's The Astonishing  :facepalm: )  But it always gets ridiculous trying to decide if Permanent Waves is a 9 or 10 and if it rates better than Hemispheres.  Or Power Windows. or 2112.  This gets much harder across bands - Wish You Were Here Vs. Moving Pictures vs. Red vs. Close to the Edge vs. In Absentia.  The difference would be so narrow, the order could change on any given day pending my mood.

I did rank all the Rush albums about 10 years ago for a BBS post (Solar Federation?  TNMS BBS?) and repeated this more recently on this board, and others.  I did it "blind"; that is, not considering my prior ratings.  It was interesting to go back and compare.  Some rankings did change significantly, some were exactly the same.  It's sorta like that album that you don't like at first and then it "clicks" or, on the other side, one that you initially love and then get sick of and it drives you nuts.  Or it reminds you of an ex.  Or losing a loved-one.  Or the birth of a child.  The emotional connection is dynamic - and for me, this would be tied to any ranking du jour.

Edited by cygnify, 25 January 2017 - 04:07 PM.


#31 Mr. Not

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 06:36 PM

View Posttoscanobarga, on 25 January 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostEntre_Perpetuo, on 25 January 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Posttoscanobarga, on 25 January 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Small minds think only in numbers.

Using a "rank each song" system completely removes the emotional impact an album may have when taken as a whole It's why Albums are still the greatest medium for music in my opinion.

Someone who still uses a rank each song system and still feels huge emotional impact from listening to full albums might disagree with you there.

I said small minds think ONLY in numbers, that wouldn't be the person you describe.

Small minds dismiss other's approaches to enjoying music as small minded

#32 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 06:49 PM

View PostMr. Not, on 25 January 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

View Posttoscanobarga, on 25 January 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostEntre_Perpetuo, on 25 January 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Posttoscanobarga, on 25 January 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Small minds think only in numbers.

Using a "rank each song" system completely removes the emotional impact an album may have when taken as a whole It's why Albums are still the greatest medium for music in my opinion.

Someone who still uses a rank each song system and still feels huge emotional impact from listening to full albums might disagree with you there.

I said small minds think ONLY in numbers, that wouldn't be the person you describe.

Small minds dismiss other's approaches to enjoying music as small minded
Your post emotionally impacted me.
I give it an "8" on a 1-10 Emotional Impact point scale.

And I'd rank the three of you TRFers (in regards to these specific posts) this way:
1. Mr. Not
2. Entre Perpetuo
3. toscanobargo

I'll be back later to comment more fully on this topic but right now I have to go alphabetize my sock drawer...
black-blue-logo-pattern-white

:blaze:

((Edited due to improper number of spaces between "." and "Not"))

Edited by JohnnyBlaze, 25 January 2017 - 06:50 PM.


#33 catherine

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 07:50 PM

I don't do any kind of formal ranking but if asked to compare a small number or songs/albums/bands I will usually rank based on which I like to listen to more, which connects with me most, etc. Despite my love of detail in some respects, music is purely an emotional/gut/spiritual experience for me. I don't over analyze what I like about it. Well I guess that's not entirely true. I do tend towards certain styles of/taste in music. I have a few bands that are most special to me and that doesn't change much, but many others that I enjoy, circle around in the rotation.

#34 Lucas

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:30 PM

Not really answering the question, but I have found it interesting that there are some common links and threads flowing thru various members here, and I think that while we all are moved in different ways by music, the longer that I have been here, the more clear it is why certain people like certain music ..

I guess this does apply to the question in a way, as it creates some understanding why we rank things higher than others ..

I'll use our OP Entre_Perpetuo  as an example ... Over time, I can see that Entre_Perpetuo  and I have a lot of common ground and an overlapping what appeals to us ..

Speaking for myself, for example, I love Freddie Mercury and the over the top emotional component he brought to Queen's music .. Actually, Queen, because of Freddie, was more than music - there is a bond and an emotional element that is very dramatic and appealing to a particular part of our psyche ..

So it was not surprising to me when Entre_Perpetuo found Bruce Springsteen more appealing than Tom Petty - it is the same for me .. Bruce can be much more dramatic, heavy handed - whatever you want to call it -

This is by no means a rule, just an observation, as different performers will be different things to everyone ..

But I think if we were to rank 10 artists, Entre_Perpetuo  and I would probably be very close in our lists


( sorry Entre_Perpetuo , you may not like to hear that :lol: )

Edited by Lucas, 25 January 2017 - 09:43 PM.


#35 Mr. Not

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 12:30 AM

This thread's reminded me, you should check out the 2000 film "High Fidelity". Music themed top-5 lists throughout the movie, usually in relation to the main character's life situation. Plenty of fun band references, vinyl record sightings (the MC follows a character who owns a record store), etc.



#36 driventotheedge

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 02:44 PM

View PostMr. Not, on 26 January 2017 - 12:30 AM, said:

This thread's reminded me, you should check out the 2000 film "High Fidelity". Music themed top-5 lists throughout the movie, usually in relation to the main character's life situation. Plenty of fun band references, vinyl record sightings (the MC follows a character who owns a record store), etc.


Great movie for music freaks.

#37 Entre_Perpetuo

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 07:46 PM

I have to see that movie now, lol. ty

#38 Entre_Perpetuo

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 07:48 PM

View PostLucas, on 25 January 2017 - 09:30 PM, said:

Not really answering the question, but I have found it interesting that there are some common links and threads flowing thru various members here, and I think that while we all are moved in different ways by music, the longer that I have been here, the more clear it is why certain people like certain music ..

I guess this does apply to the question in a way, as it creates some understanding why we rank things higher than others ..

I'll use our OP Entre_Perpetuo  as an example ... Over time, I can see that Entre_Perpetuo  and I have a lot of common ground and an overlapping what appeals to us ..

Speaking for myself, for example, I love Freddie Mercury and the over the top emotional component he brought to Queen's music .. Actually, Queen, because of Freddie, was more than music - there is a bond and an emotional element that is very dramatic and appealing to a particular part of our psyche ..

So it was not surprising to me when Entre_Perpetuo found Bruce Springsteen more appealing than Tom Petty - it is the same for me .. Bruce can be much more dramatic, heavy handed - whatever you want to call it -

This is by no means a rule, just an observation, as different performers will be different things to everyone ..

But I think if we were to rank 10 artists, Entre_Perpetuo  and I would probably be very close in our lists


( sorry Entre_Perpetuo , you may not like to hear that :lol: )

I'm not sure how similar our lists would be, but you're totally cool dude. :)





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