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Hold Your Fire vs. Big Generator - The Battle of 1987


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Battle of 1987  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Battle of 1987

    • Rush - Hold Your Fire
    • Yes - Big Generator


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Tonight, in the quiet comfort of home, I will listen to these two, back to back

 

I need to do this alone, at home, just in case the fetal position calls

 

Hold Your Fire is full of subtle beauty. Don't play it just once.

 

100% agree - Its a masterpiece. Also, before you listen to it, turn off all your TV's, radio etc. Have nothing but the sound of silence in the room and, after a moment of stillness and calm read the lyrics. Slowly. Very slowly. Out loud. Music is poetry accompanied by instruments and Neil's lyrics are some of the best poetry he has written.

 

After you have enjoyed the poetry, listen to it when you have the time to properly enjoy it without interruptions / distractions.

 

That will enable you to start to properly relish the masterpiece that it is.

 

I'm proud to see another poster who gets it, about Hold Your Fire.

 

(I've seen you post before, but I didn't know you were such a fan of HYF).

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This will most likely get a lot of hate but I like Big Generator. Matter of fact, Big Generator and 90125 (the preceding Yes album) are by far my favorite Yes albums.

 

Shoot High & Love Will Find a Way from Big Generator (plus Owner of a Lonely Heart from 90125) are just really enjoyable Yes songs & my favorite Yes songs.

 

That being said - neither album comes close to the greatness of HYF. HYF gets my vote.

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Definitely going with Hold Your Fire. There isn't a song on the album I dislike at all. I used to really hate Big Generator and while I've gained an appreciation for it over the last couple years, it's still my least favorite Yes album, while Hold Your Fire is one of my favorite Rush albums. I really like "Shoot High, Aim Low" and "Almost Like Love" but don't really find myself listening to much else from the album. Hold Your Fire, on the other hand, I enjoy every time I put the album in and listen to it.

 

So, Hold Your Fire is my choice.

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Tonight, in the quiet comfort of home, I will listen to these two, back to back

 

I need to do this alone, at home, just in case the fetal position calls

 

Hold Your Fire is full of subtle beauty. Don't play it just once.

 

100% agree - Its a masterpiece. Also, before you listen to it, turn off all your TV's, radio etc. Have nothing but the sound of silence in the room and, after a moment of stillness and calm read the lyrics. Slowly. Very slowly. Out loud. Music is poetry accompanied by instruments and Neil's lyrics are some of the best poetry he has written.

 

After you have enjoyed the poetry, listen to it when you have the time to properly enjoy it without interruptions / distractions.

 

That will enable you to start to properly relish the masterpiece that it is.

 

I'm proud to see another poster who gets it, about Hold Your Fire.

 

(I've seen you post before, but I didn't know you were such a fan of HYF).

 

At least three of us know the truth haha!

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I love seeing all the love for HYF.

 

It's easily my favourite Rush album alongside Moving Pictures. I'd now rank AFTK third.

 

I think HYF is the most beautiful Rush album of the eighties in terms of emotion and musicality. I remember the first time I heard it. Bought it from a store on vinyl, second hand, £1. I had read on this forum all this stuff all out how bad it was. I didn't really like Power Windows at that point and so had low expectations.

 

I was surprised by how beautiful it was.

 

I even remember preparing myself to hate Tai Shan.

 

Wasn't sure I heard the right song because I loved it.

 

Yes. EVERYTHING about HYF is sincere, heartfelt and beautiful. It is layered and textured and Geddy never sang better. Sorry. But he was never so nuanced and emotional in the past in such a consistently strong manner.

 

It's just without a doubt the one Rush album I can listen too if I am not into Rush. It's just amazing. I can't even begin to explain what it means to me.

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Tonight, in the quiet comfort of home, I will listen to these two, back to back

 

I need to do this alone, at home, just in case the fetal position calls

 

Hold Your Fire is full of subtle beauty. Don't play it just once.

 

100% agree - Its a masterpiece. Also, before you listen to it, turn off all your TV's, radio etc. Have nothing but the sound of silence in the room and, after a moment of stillness and calm read the lyrics. Slowly. Very slowly. Out loud. Music is poetry accompanied by instruments and Neil's lyrics are some of the best poetry he has written.

 

After you have enjoyed the poetry, listen to it when you have the time to properly enjoy it without interruptions / distractions.

 

That will enable you to start to properly relish the masterpiece that it is.

 

I'm proud to see another poster who gets it, about Hold Your Fire.

 

(I've seen you post before, but I didn't know you were such a fan of HYF).

 

Yes - only like 2112 and maybe Power Windows more. Odd mix, but I can bang my head, air drum and enjoy the ripping guitars and youthful energy of 2112. Then enjoy the flowing, poetic greatness of HYF. Power Windows is the same general type of album that HYF is so its very hard for me to separate them. The guys may have gotten the music on HYF to fit with the song lyrics slightly better than they did for Power Windows. Perhaps - slightly. The only weakness I see on HYF is High Water (yes, I like Tai Shan). High Water just does not click with me.

 

To me Neil really got going with his lyric writing with Signals. On "Beyond the Lighted Stage" Neil says something about Rush becoming Rush with MP & Tom Sawyer. That may be the case musically but to me Neil did not really become Neil of Rush until he wrote Subdivisions for Signals. Then he really started to write more and more poetry that the guys fitted to Geddy & Allex's music. His lyrics improved on Grace Under Pressure and then much more so for Power Windows & HYF. They took a very, very slight dip on Presto (which I also think is wonderful). I find they took a major drop on RTB before returning to a Presto level on Counterparts. However the music is not at the same level as Rush's early work. Rush's subsequent work, although mostly enjoyable, largely does not rise to the same level of their earlier work for one reason or another. Only on S & A did they again approach the level of Presto & Counterparts - but not HYF.

 

What I am saying is that, to me, after the wonderful brilliance of HYF Rush never produced another peace of work that was quite as brilliant.

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Tonight, in the quiet comfort of home, I will listen to these two, back to back

 

I need to do this alone, at home, just in case the fetal position calls

 

Hold Your Fire is full of subtle beauty. Don't play it just once.

 

100% agree - Its a masterpiece. Also, before you listen to it, turn off all your TV's, radio etc. Have nothing but the sound of silence in the room and, after a moment of stillness and calm read the lyrics. Slowly. Very slowly. Out loud. Music is poetry accompanied by instruments and Neil's lyrics are some of the best poetry he has written.

 

After you have enjoyed the poetry, listen to it when you have the time to properly enjoy it without interruptions / distractions.

 

That will enable you to start to properly relish the masterpiece that it is.

 

I'm proud to see another poster who gets it, about Hold Your Fire.

 

(I've seen you post before, but I didn't know you were such a fan of HYF).

 

Yes - only like 2112 and maybe Power Windows more. Odd mix, but I can bang my head, air drum and enjoy the ripping guitars and youthful energy of 2112. Then enjoy the flowing, poetic greatness of HYF. Power Windows is the same general type of album that HYF is so its very hard for me to separate them. The guys may have gotten the music on HYF to fit with the song lyrics slightly better than they did for Power Windows. Perhaps - slightly. The only weakness I see on HYF is High Water (yes, I like Tai Shan). High Water just does not click with me.

 

To me Neil really got going with his lyric writing with Signals. On "Beyond the Lighted Stage" Neil says something about Rush becoming Rush with MP & Tom Sawyer. That may be the case musically but to me Neil did not really become Neil of Rush until he wrote Subdivisions for Signals. Then he really started to write more and more poetry that the guys fitted to Geddy & Allex's music. His lyrics improved on Grace Under Pressure and then much more so for Power Windows & HYF. They took a very, very slight dip on Presto (which I also think is wonderful). I find they took a major drop on RTB before returning to a Presto level on Counterparts. However the music is not at the same level as Rush's early work. Rush's subsequent work, although mostly enjoyable, largely does not rise to the same level of their earlier work for one reason or another. Only on S & A did they again approach the level of Presto & Counterparts - but not HYF.

 

What I am saying is that, to me, after the wonderful brilliance of HYF Rush never produced another peace of work that was quite as brilliant.

 

Agree with this all...although for me Witch Hunt was a major turning point lyrically and Losing It was draw dropping.

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Was that "drawer dropping"? Not much Rush music makes me drop my drawers. Maybe Time Stand Still. This whole fantasy about Amy Mann...

Never mind...

 

My typos have been so crap lately haha

 

Yes whenever I play Rush I brake some furniture haha

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Tonight, in the quiet comfort of home, I will listen to these two, back to back

 

I need to do this alone, at home, just in case the fetal position calls

 

Hold Your Fire is full of subtle beauty. Don't play it just once.

 

100% agree - Its a masterpiece. Also, before you listen to it, turn off all your TV's, radio etc. Have nothing but the sound of silence in the room and, after a moment of stillness and calm read the lyrics. Slowly. Very slowly. Out loud. Music is poetry accompanied by instruments and Neil's lyrics are some of the best poetry he has written.

 

After you have enjoyed the poetry, listen to it when you have the time to properly enjoy it without interruptions / distractions.

 

That will enable you to start to properly relish the masterpiece that it is.

 

I'm proud to see another poster who gets it, about Hold Your Fire.

 

(I've seen you post before, but I didn't know you were such a fan of HYF).

 

Yes - only like 2112 and maybe Power Windows more. Odd mix, but I can bang my head, air drum and enjoy the ripping guitars and youthful energy of 2112. Then enjoy the flowing, poetic greatness of HYF. Power Windows is the same general type of album that HYF is so its very hard for me to separate them. The guys may have gotten the music on HYF to fit with the song lyrics slightly better than they did for Power Windows. Perhaps - slightly. The only weakness I see on HYF is High Water (yes, I like Tai Shan). High Water just does not click with me.

 

To me Neil really got going with his lyric writing with Signals. On "Beyond the Lighted Stage" Neil says something about Rush becoming Rush with MP & Tom Sawyer. That may be the case musically but to me Neil did not really become Neil of Rush until he wrote Subdivisions for Signals. Then he really started to write more and more poetry that the guys fitted to Geddy & Allex's music. His lyrics improved on Grace Under Pressure and then much more so for Power Windows & HYF. They took a very, very slight dip on Presto (which I also think is wonderful). I find they took a major drop on RTB before returning to a Presto level on Counterparts. However the music is not at the same level as Rush's early work. Rush's subsequent work, although mostly enjoyable, largely does not rise to the same level of their earlier work for one reason or another. Only on S & A did they again approach the level of Presto & Counterparts - but not HYF.

 

What I am saying is that, to me, after the wonderful brilliance of HYF Rush never produced another peace of work that was quite as brilliant.

 

Agree with this all...although for me Witch Hunt was a major turning point lyrically and Losing It was draw dropping.

 

No complaints about Witch Hunt - a good & enjoyable song. But for me not the turning point in Neil's lyric writing.

 

I agree Losing It is wonderful. I long overlooked the song and only came to appreciate it in the last 10 years or so. I mostly picked on Subdivisions since that is the first song on Signals and thats where, for me Neil's writing really took off.

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Tonight, in the quiet comfort of home, I will listen to these two, back to back

 

I need to do this alone, at home, just in case the fetal position calls

 

Hold Your Fire is full of subtle beauty. Don't play it just once.

 

100% agree - Its a masterpiece. Also, before you listen to it, turn off all your TV's, radio etc. Have nothing but the sound of silence in the room and, after a moment of stillness and calm read the lyrics. Slowly. Very slowly. Out loud. Music is poetry accompanied by instruments and Neil's lyrics are some of the best poetry he has written.

 

After you have enjoyed the poetry, listen to it when you have the time to properly enjoy it without interruptions / distractions.

 

That will enable you to start to properly relish the masterpiece that it is.

 

I'm proud to see another poster who gets it, about Hold Your Fire.

 

(I've seen you post before, but I didn't know you were such a fan of HYF).

 

Yes - only like 2112 and maybe Power Windows more. Odd mix, but I can bang my head, air drum and enjoy the ripping guitars and youthful energy of 2112. Then enjoy the flowing, poetic greatness of HYF. Power Windows is the same general type of album that HYF is so its very hard for me to separate them. The guys may have gotten the music on HYF to fit with the song lyrics slightly better than they did for Power Windows. Perhaps - slightly. The only weakness I see on HYF is High Water (yes, I like Tai Shan). High Water just does not click with me.

 

To me Neil really got going with his lyric writing with Signals. On "Beyond the Lighted Stage" Neil says something about Rush becoming Rush with MP & Tom Sawyer. That may be the case musically but to me Neil did not really become Neil of Rush until he wrote Subdivisions for Signals. Then he really started to write more and more poetry that the guys fitted to Geddy & Allex's music. His lyrics improved on Grace Under Pressure and then much more so for Power Windows & HYF. They took a very, very slight dip on Presto (which I also think is wonderful). I find they took a major drop on RTB before returning to a Presto level on Counterparts. However the music is not at the same level as Rush's early work. Rush's subsequent work, although mostly enjoyable, largely does not rise to the same level of their earlier work for one reason or another. Only on S & A did they again approach the level of Presto & Counterparts - but not HYF.

 

What I am saying is that, to me, after the wonderful brilliance of HYF Rush never produced another peace of work that was quite as brilliant.

 

Agree with this all...although for me Witch Hunt was a major turning point lyrically and Losing It was draw dropping.

 

No complaints about Witch Hunt - a good & enjoyable song. But for me not the turning point in Neil's lyric writing.

 

I agree Losing It is wonderful. I long overlooked the song and only came to appreciate it in the last 10 years or so. I mostly picked on Subdivisions since that is the first song on Signals and thats where, for me Neil's writing really took off.

 

Maybe my issue with Signals is that I don't pay enough attention to the lyrics...

 

OK I'm going to try the album again and really listen with the lyrics

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Tonight, in the quiet comfort of home, I will listen to these two, back to back

 

I need to do this alone, at home, just in case the fetal position calls

 

Hold Your Fire is full of subtle beauty. Don't play it just once.

 

100% agree - Its a masterpiece. Also, before you listen to it, turn off all your TV's, radio etc. Have nothing but the sound of silence in the room and, after a moment of stillness and calm read the lyrics. Slowly. Very slowly. Out loud. Music is poetry accompanied by instruments and Neil's lyrics are some of the best poetry he has written.

 

After you have enjoyed the poetry, listen to it when you have the time to properly enjoy it without interruptions / distractions.

 

That will enable you to start to properly relish the masterpiece that it is.

 

I'm proud to see another poster who gets it, about Hold Your Fire.

 

(I've seen you post before, but I didn't know you were such a fan of HYF).

 

Yes - only like 2112 and maybe Power Windows more. Odd mix, but I can bang my head, air drum and enjoy the ripping guitars and youthful energy of 2112. Then enjoy the flowing, poetic greatness of HYF. Power Windows is the same general type of album that HYF is so its very hard for me to separate them. The guys may have gotten the music on HYF to fit with the song lyrics slightly better than they did for Power Windows. Perhaps - slightly. The only weakness I see on HYF is High Water (yes, I like Tai Shan). High Water just does not click with me.

 

To me Neil really got going with his lyric writing with Signals. On "Beyond the Lighted Stage" Neil says something about Rush becoming Rush with MP & Tom Sawyer. That may be the case musically but to me Neil did not really become Neil of Rush until he wrote Subdivisions for Signals. Then he really started to write more and more poetry that the guys fitted to Geddy & Allex's music. His lyrics improved on Grace Under Pressure and then much more so for Power Windows & HYF. They took a very, very slight dip on Presto (which I also think is wonderful). I find they took a major drop on RTB before returning to a Presto level on Counterparts. However the music is not at the same level as Rush's early work. Rush's subsequent work, although mostly enjoyable, largely does not rise to the same level of their earlier work for one reason or another. Only on S & A did they again approach the level of Presto & Counterparts - but not HYF.

 

What I am saying is that, to me, after the wonderful brilliance of HYF Rush never produced another peace of work that was quite as brilliant.

 

Agree with this all...although for me Witch Hunt was a major turning point lyrically and Losing It was draw dropping.

 

No complaints about Witch Hunt - a good & enjoyable song. But for me not the turning point in Neil's lyric writing.

 

I agree Losing It is wonderful. I long overlooked the song and only came to appreciate it in the last 10 years or so. I mostly picked on Subdivisions since that is the first song on Signals and thats where, for me Neil's writing really took off.

 

Maybe my issue with Signals is that I don't pay enough attention to the lyrics...

 

OK I'm going to try the album again and really listen with the lyrics

 

I can understand the problem you are touching on. After the greatness of MP they went in a very different direction musically (much more keyboard heavy etc) and that really throws you at first. But that also set them on the direction that lead the to their latter albums (such as HYF), before they stripped out the keyboards with Presto and then went back in heavy direction with Counterparts.

 

I am not a fan of all of Signals. I don't like Chemisty or Digital Man that much. The Weapon is only ok to my ears. But Subdivisions, Analog Kid, New World Man,Losing It & Countdown - heck yes.

 

I also think. and this is part of Neil's genius that reached its peak in HYF (IMO), that his lyrics can hit you in some way but really hit you if they apply to you. For example, Subdivisions hits me because I was "the dreamer" and "the misfit". Now, I did not grow up in the "Subdivisions" - I actually grew up on the border of them and "The far unlit unknown". But my school district included the Subdivisions. So these lyrics really hit me. Losing It? Yes - in recent years as my parents have started to "Lose it" physically - (not mentally thankfully - they are sharp as tacks and can talk religion, politics or anything else for that matter at length with you) the song has hit me more and more - hence my agreement with you on those lyrics. But seeing them, now in their late 80's, not able to do things they did with easy a few years ago, yes the lyrics apply to my life and hit me a lot.

 

But that I think is the genius of Neils lyrics.

 

Give it a shot - love to here what you think of it after really zeroing in on the lyrics.

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Usually I couldn't wait to listen to a new Rush album to figure out how to play it on guitar. Somewhere there were interesting surprises from Alex. After a few times of listening to HYF I was left questioning 'is this the same band that did 2112, Hemisphere, PeW and MP? where did they go?'. It's just a big pile of mushy adult contemporary mall music. Then I tossed in the pile of CDs that I considered mistakes never to be listened to again. Just to check my ears, I listened to it a few years...yep still a boring dogpile.
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Probably the only Rush album that would lose to a Yes album. HYF is too buried in keyboards, and it has no balls. There are a couple magnificent tracks, but falls off quickly. I just like more of the songs on BG.

 

If it were any other Rush album, I doubt that I would vote against it.

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